Umm? WDFW

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Dehlan G, May 8, 2010.

  1. Dehlan G

    Dehlan G Member

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    From the new pamphlet...
    "RIVERS, STREAMS, AND BEAVER PONDS that drain into Puget Sound or the Strait of Juan de Fuca are CLOSED to fishing unless listed as open"

    They're making it even more complicated then it already is...
    But I have to say, they organized the pamphlet pretty well

    I guess those untouched streams up in the west side of the Cascades are all closed... it will be tempting to wet a line hiking up to some of the alpine lakes though
     
  2. Don Freeman

    Don Freeman Free Man

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    I think the idea was to make it LESS complicated. If you can't find the body of water listed, its closed. That way, there are fewer listings to print, and you don't have to read both the open and closed lists. The intent is to protect juvenile steelhead from being harvested, or succumbing to handling stress while still in the size bracket that makes them rainbow trout.
     
  3. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    Don -
    I understand the desire to protect the juvenile anadromous salmonids but the change certainly does not make the pamphlet simplier or reduce the nummber of listings. This change for the Puget Sound and Stait streams added 7 new pages to the western Washington stream listings over last year while reducing resident trout opportunities insome beaver ponds and above anadormous barriers. I suspect that the State will eventually change the regulations to open some of those resident trout areas currently closed though it will add even more additional listins/pages to the pamphlet.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  4. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    "SAUK RIVER (Skagit/Snohomish Co.)
    from mouth to Darrington Bridge
    (828)
    All Game Fish First Sat. in June-Apr. 30 Catch-and-release except up to 2 hatchery STEELHEAD may be
    retained. Selective gear rules. First Sat. in June-Feb. 28: Internal
    combustion motors prohibited.
    "

    They had better park some enforcement at the mouth of the Sauk or this rule will be ignored. Good chance a lot of guys won't know they can't run their sleds up the Sauk anymore.

    I wonder if this is the first step in banning power boats from the upper Skagit system.
     
  5. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

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    I still think they should spell out a clear official definition of "beaver pond." :hmmm:
     
  6. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    Kerry -
    Not a change from historic motor use on the Sauk.

    That change reflects a change in the definition of the "Selective Gear Rules". As you know the Suak is managed under those selective gear rules. Prior to this recent change thoseselective gear rules included a ban on "fishing from any device equiped with an internal combustion motor".

    Not sure why the change.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  7. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Why do people make out like these are the hardest Regs to read and understand. When I lived and fished in Washington I could understand these regs. What you need to do is look up the river or skinny water that you want to fish and then study the regs. What can be easier than that.

    Just quit trying to make these things harder than they are. 99% of all skinny water and beaver ponds open on the first Saturday in June.

    It used to be that high lakes didn't open until the skinny water opener. Now that could be confusing.

    Jim
     
  8. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    FF -
    Do you have a suggestion for a "clear" definition for a beaver pond?

    Many have tried and to date failed but if you have one that works it would be to everyone's benefit if you get it to the State.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  9. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

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    A beaver pond shoud be defined as a pond less than 5 acres in size created on a stream by a dam of logs with a minum diameter of
    6", built by a family of 3 beavers or more which must reside in their dam for a minimum of 9 months out of the year. To fund the enforcement and protection of both the beavers and cuttroat trout there will be a beaver pond endorsement tag required in western washington which will cost $11.95 not including the $2.00 dealer fee. The beaver pond endorcement tag must be worn in plain vue above your waist while fishing at or with in 50 yards of a beaver pond. :rofl: :beathead:
     
  10. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

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    Actually yes, many of us know exactly what a beaver pond is and, more importantly, isn't. I also know all about dealing with our great state...enough not to die on that hill. First citation I get for fishing in a beaver pond that's not really a beaver pond I'll be glad to help with the definition. Until that day the regs can remain vague (aka written in OMJ's secret code). >> Besides I have a better idea...why not remove one wasp from the X52 program and make it his job to get a clear concise definition of beaver ponds into the regs. Our state would be a much better place.
     
  11. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    This is worded differently. With the old rules I was always figured we could run our boats up the Sauk but could not fish from them. This wording states no engines period. Perhaps the beginning of a power boat ban for the Skagit.
     
  12. Cruik

    Cruik Active Member

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    With the way they structured the new regs, 99% of streams are NOT open on the first saturday in June. Last season, any skinny water/beaver pond fell under the statewide first sat. in june rule unless specified otherwise. This year, if your pee ends up in Puget Sound when you relieve yourself in a stream, the default rule is that the stream is closed. The streams which are legal to fish, are the exceptions to the rule.

    There are a lot of waters in western Washington above anadromous barriers that are now permanently closed. I understand that it would be a huge pain for the wdfw to employ people to follow every tributary to a puget sound stream with dwindling anadromous stocks (all of them), and determine where exactly the stream fell over a large enough height that a salmon or steelhead could not jump over it. But, I don't like the idea that I can't fish for resident fish (that I can be sure are not smolt) in a stream which the WDFW has either overlooked or does not have the resources to research. I understand, people are dumb. For every 1 fisherman that is sure the fish are resident and is releasing them using barbless hooks, there are 5 catching smolt with powerbait from the comfort of their Cascade creekside campsite. I understand the reasons for the rule, and I agree that it is probably better in the long run.

    But are you guys going to absolutely abide by it? I've never been backpacking and found a warden. The chances of getting caught are effectively nil. There are a number of streams that I love to fish, but now cannot. ever. If I can mitigate the harm which the regulations are trying to prevent (pressure on juvenile anadromous salmonids), by fishing where there are no smolt, is it wrong to disobey the regulations?
     
  13. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    This is hell funny Jonathan Tachell! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  14. Dehlan G

    Dehlan G Member

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    Exactly what I was thinking, it's gonna be hard to pass up some nice looking skinny water hiking in the Cascades (west slope) without wetting a line.
     
  15. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

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    Nope. I ain't ever seen a warden up there in those streams either. To much work for 'em, they only go so far from their trucks.

    I think this latest bullshit from WDFW, clearly illistrates how freakin useless they are. I've called their office and asked them why some of the streams (by name and location) that are closed got closed. I even explained to them some of the natural barriers (waterfalls for one) that prevent anadormis fish from going up. I also explain that some of these streams only have cutts in them, some of which have only resident Bull Trout in them (these I suggested they keep closed). Of course the idiot on the other end of the line replied that these new rules are to prevent these streams from being fished out because they have less trout, she didn't say a damn thing about anadormis fish. I asked for a biologist, or some one with half a brain, but have yet to recieve a return call.
     
  16. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

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    Oh. And as an after thought. They listed the boulder river as open for two hatchery steelhead now. Shouldn't that one have been closed down below the falls instead of advertised as open. Just one example of WDFW inompitance.
     
  17. Rory McMahon

    Rory McMahon Active Member

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    This is such bull$hit. The entire drainage above granite falls is now closed. Olney Creek is now closed. Some creeks i loved that were in the sultan/duvall foothills are now all closed. This is ridiculous, how many people are actually gonna follow these rules?
     
  18. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    I like the idea of a beaver patch.
     
  19. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    The absence of an operable definition of a beaver pond is indeed the problem. And it's certainly not for lack of trying that there isn't one in place today. As a member of the HiLakers, I can confirm that several club members have been tenacious in ongoing attempts to convince WDFW that a single, one-size-fits-all definition doesn't work.

    For example, while the agency laudably uses the current definition as a means to protect anadromous smolts and juveniles, there are no provisions for obvious exceptions. That repeated attempts by members like Rex Johnson have failed to convince WFDW of the folly of such overly-simplistic regulations might cause a reasonable person to conclude that WDFW apparently suffers from an willful, institutional avoidance to further define exactly what a beaver dam is.

    As an example, I know a person who was cited for fishing 'out of season' in a 'beaver pond' on the MF Snoqualmie. He attempted to defend himself in court by pointing out that the 'beaver pond' he was accused of fishing illegally was in a tributary stream that's at best no more than 6' wide, that the 'beaver dam' cited by the enforcement officer had fallen into disrepair, and that there was no sign of recent beaver activity suggesting that the original beavers apparently moved to a larger stream to construct a more suitable structure.

    He also attempted to point out that in any case, the 'beaver pond' in question was above a barrier falls (Snoqualmie Falls) that effectively precludes any anadromous fish from spawning in the upper Snoqualmie forks and using said dam as a refuge. The judge cut the proceeding off after the enforcement officer confirmed that the defendant was indeed in violation of the regulation as currently written.

    I'm convinced it's not because a better definition can't be crafted - it's because WFDW prefers a clear-cut, black-and-white (and thus easy to enforce) one.

    K
     
  20. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Go to page 30 of this years Regs. Read what it says about Skinny water. All skinny water is open on the first Saturday in June. Unless listed in the regs. What could be simpler than that. Yes, your Onley Creek is open. And so is any other stream,river or Creek and Beaver pond. It seems that everybody tries to make them harder to understand than is necessary. If I was still there I would be having a ball on all of the small stream dumping into Puget sound.
     

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