Up one line? Two?

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Jake L, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    WOW!! This has been a truly illuminating match up (or mis-match up as it appears!) and if there are any Gen-u-wine Certified Score Keepers on board, the outcome of this delightful debate would have to be overwhelmingly scored in your favor, Mr. Philster, I say, “Well done old boy, bloody well done!!”:thumb::thumb:

    Only time, likely measured in seconds, will tell if your antagonist will finally keep his word – after six successive failures – and sign-off for good……;)

    ‘Ow ‘bout a spot of tea ole’ boy? :ray1:

    Gotta’ stop now, I’m crackin’ up……!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

    JC :rolleyes:
    ___________________________
    A mind, like a parachute, works much better when it's open!
     
  2. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Well you have to ask yourself one question. Why was he here? I'm willing to wager his views met with quite an interesting reaction across the pond. Ever lurked on an English Fishing site? They are FRICKIN' BRUTAL!!! They make me on a roll look like Marthat Stewart on tranqs...
     
  3. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    If you can talk me through how to do it I will change my user name. I tried and couldn't figure it out. Maybe I really am stupid:(
     
  4. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    It's sorta technical, but I have faith in you Phil.

    You PM chris
     
  5. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Well sir, I can only reasonably speculate that he was somehow under the impression that he'd worn out his welcome "over there" and figured he could jump in here and bully his way through.;)....I suspect also that there is only one cure for internet bullies - the same as for real-life bullies....maybe just a "virtual punch-in-the-mouth!"

    And no, I've never had any particular desire to visit an English site (or their country either) and even less of a desire now, if that's possible.....!!! :rolleyes:

    Sheeesh, now I don't know how to address you properly...."Sunshine" or "Marty" (for Martha Stewart):confused:

    JC:rofl:
     
  6. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Okay now, back to the original subject - "Up one line? Or two...?"

    In another of my rare moments of lucidity, I recalled that I had purchased a SA Streamer Express in 8 wt for my then "new" Reddington Crosswater 8 wt rod last year in preparation for "Pinks" fishing in Puget Sound and never used it due to a severe back problem that kept me out of action for many months. bawling:bawling: I had completely forgotten about it with all the talk & recommendations about using 6 wt rods for Silvers this year!

    Then this thread started with a plethora of information regarding all the different weights of rods, lines, leaders, flies etc. etc. to use. It all got very confusing for a newbie like me, so before I jumped in and purchased another line (I'd already bought a nice, new GLoomis 6 wt rod!), I decided to study the thread for awhile and see if a concensus would develop regarding which line to use with which rod, blah,blah,blah!! It was toward the latter part of this thread (...think it was sometime during the "exchange" between Philster, Sunshine, Marty and the "Traditionalist", haha!:rofl:) that it dawned on me that I might just have a new SA Streamer Express stashed away somewhere - shore 'enuff, I did....even already spooled up on a Reddington Large Arbor reel too....Wowie!

    Time for some scientific testing, so gathered up the rods, line, reels and 14 lbs of lead weights to use for some "real" scientific testing of same and headed to the beach - what better place to test the casting proficiency of individual rods, lines etc?....Just kidding about the lead weights, Phil....er, Sunsh..., er, Mart...!:D

    Anyhow, took the 6 wt with the 6 wt OB intermediate and the 8 wt with the 8 wt SA SE to swap around and see if I could tell the difference between the various combo's. Never got any swapping done because I started with the 8 wt setup and liked it so well I just never got around to switching - and suddendly it was "slack tide" and my ex-sweetie was ready to leave...and I knew that for the next hour or two there would be 20 lbs of salad hanging off my line and my fly on every retrieve....and besides there was lightning & thunder beginning & I didn't consider it wise to stand in salt water with a graphite lightning rod held high overhead :eek:!

    I really, really liked that 8 wt with the SA SE setup tho - had to keep stripping more & more line into the basket 'cuz I was shootin' it so far (for me), maybe 65-80 feet on the good ones!!:eek: With more work on my "haul" timing, I'm sure I can do much better and even easier too!!:D

    I knew you were just dying to hear the latest on the "stupid, clueless newbie's casting adventures"...and as usual, I'm receptive to all of your well thought out and well reasoned advice....;)

    JC:)
     
  7. Ron Crawford

    Ron Crawford ===

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    Well since we are back on the original topic .... Here's my 2 cents.

    I use a Sage TCR 6 weight for silvers with an 8 wt outbound - So I am in the "up two line" camp. I have never invested the time to really learn about shooting heads, I just went with the outbound and liked it so I stuck with it. The TCR is a REALLY fast action rod so uplining it by 2 is probably like uplining a regular rod by one.

    Like I said, I really don't know that much about shooting heads (but I have learned a lot from this post - Thanks to all who contributed). I just wanted to toss in my data point about the combo I use. It works like a charm for me - (well, it casts really nice, I do wish it actually caught more fish).
     
  8. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    TCRs are strange birds. you can really change their feel with different weight lines, but within reason, they really don't seem to ever get mushy or feel dead as you're doing it. I remember trying line after line on a spey and while the action changed, it never "died". Expensive, but definitely special rods.
     
  9. Jake L

    Jake L New Member

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    Back on topic! Wow. (Though I think the other topics we touched on were quite entertaining and at time informative). So I have been using my 10' Echo Classic 6wt with the 7wt 40+. Its awesome, but I think a little heavy. I may get the guts to cut a foot off the front, or I may just work on my technique to increase my distance... maybe both. I think that perhaps the 7wt head would work well on this rod for many casters, but after casting a few more rods lately, I've learned that I learned on a very fast action, and still cast best with one. So I seem to try to speed up my stroke too much for the slightly slower Echo, which explains my troublesome trailing loops and overloaded feeling in the rod.

    But its casting very well, and the set up certainly is not the greatest limiting factor in my casting.
     
  10. Denny

    Denny Active Member

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    Interesting that you think it (the line) a little heavy. Because of their weight distribution on the blank, 10' rods often feel 'heavy'. Am I remembering correctly that this is a new stick for you, and the first line for it? If so, have you tried other lines on it? If not, you might want to try them to determine if it's the line that gives you the heavy feeling, or it's the rod.
     
  11. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    The #7 40+ weighs 285 grains--that's the equivalent of a heavy weight forward #10. It works great for single spey casting on the 10'#6, but it's pushing things for overhead casting.
     
  12. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    Does the tip feel like it is collapsing, or is it just stressful on your wrist? Would like a bit more info as to what the "overloaded feeling" is like to better make and educated guess to help with the issue.
     
  13. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    Phil I agree with you on the TCR. I have yet to collapse the tip on it (Single hand version) and I have put up to a 9wt Rio shooting head on a 6wt to try and overload it and see just how far I could push it. It really likes the load and snaps well to generate line speed but I am not comfortable with that much load on the 6 wt.
     
  14. Jake L

    Jake L New Member

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    Well I do not have enough experience to quite say whether or not the tip is collapsing, especially without another line to compare to on this rod. Mostly it feels like the rod is loading fairly far down the blank, but this could be due to the rod having a slower action than the 5 wt I've grown so used to. Also lately it has been pretty stressful on the ol' wrist. I think that overall the set up is close enough for my casting abilities, and that there is probably much more to improve on in myself than in my equipment.
     
  15. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer :)

    If you feel like the line speed slows when you power into it (compared to like 80% of that power) then it is probably collapsing. If it is just uncomfy on the wrist when you power into it then it is probably just overstressing your tendons with that long of a rod.

    I returned my GLX 10' because of the second reason and a tiny bit softer, and 3 inch shorter GL3 was exactly the ticket for my body and style. My wrist tendons just weren't happy pushing a shooting head on a rod that long and that fast. I was on the losing side of the lever with the GLX.
     
  16. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    I'm surprised no one has brought up overhead casting with a DH rod; it seems like if maximum distance and not straining one's joints are issues, backcast room is restricted, etc.
    that would be a useful alternative to consider.
    Of course, when you start talking about head weights for overheading with a DH rod, you can really get into the weeds! Another 7 pages, hopefully with a lesser dose of conflict...:D
    Bob
     
  17. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    I have experieced some lines with my TCR 691. SA Streamer Express 250 Intermediate is a good fit....for a floater the 6 weight SA SH Taper is a little to light. This rod based on the CS value (?) is actually rated about a 7.5 rod weight.
     
  18. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    ...and you gave me a hard time for running an 8wt line on my 6wt last winter :p
     
  19. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    You know this fast rod stuff is over stated because it seems everybody overloads their fast action rod with a higher weight line to get feel :confused: .... If you want feel why not fish with a slower action rod then? I'm guilty too. I have uplined my 6 TCR to get more feel. I think it might be due to the fact that some of these fast action rods are meant for long distance...all the time, and a lot of casters don't want to be flinging 60 plus feet of line on their hauls every single cast. Many of these fast rods perform very well when overlined....and seem less prone to the term "collapsing".....but as many would say why don't you just fish with the 8 weight then?


    And Jeremy those 9'9" GL3's are very nice (casting) fly rods :) great choice (IMHO)
     
  20. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    I was just giving you a hard time..

    Yeah I really like the GL3's. They perform far and above their price tag, and better than many rods much much more expensive than them.

    I overlined the TCR because (at the average cast of 60 feet) it loads and shoots with only one back cast for my style, and it speys a hell of a lot better, and the sweet spot timing is much more forgiving.
     

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