Up one line? Two?

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Jake L, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    You could. With a shorter line:clown: But here's some stuff that may help.

    As stated, you don't need more than 4 to 5 feet of level leader with a sinking line. Even a solid color sinking line. I generally fish 6 to 7 because I dink around trying different flies, and if I start with 5 feet, between cutting back for fish teeth roughing up the knot area, and swapping flies, I'm down to 3 feet pretty quickly, and that's getting too short for my comfort level. In crazy wind conditions or really heavy flies, aim for the 5 foot mark which will be nice and short, and let you change flies a few times before adding leader. Your life will be easier.

    Now the casting approach. Figure out where your best casts come with that line in terms of how much running line, or socalled "overhang" out of the tip top. It'll vary from line to line, rod to rod etc. But it's probably between 1 foot and 5 feet. Now extend that much line out of the tip top. Raise the rod to the "locked and loaded, ready for the forward cast position". Now where you can see it in your peripheral vision by the side of your face, mark a 4 inch long section of your line with magic marker. Let it dry thoroughly before respooling, and if you have a cat do it in a locked room away from the cat until everything is dry and respooled. Trust me on that last part bawling:

    The reason you marked your line is that with practice you can learn exactly how much of your too-long line you CAN roll to the surface in one shot and have it laying perfectly straight out in front of you for pickup. You can then learn to lay your rod a little flat on the backcast and slip line until your eye catches that marked section. You then trap the line, pause for the load, and forward cast. It'll take practice and unless you do it alot you won't be perfect, but if you're competent you can probably average 80 percent, single roll, one backcast, shoot. It does add line speed to your backcast, which can introduce shock with heavy weighted flies, but you can live with that. That's how I use my outbounds. It works, but it's WORK! I'd rather use a shorter line.
     
  2. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Rio confused things in attempt to make it easier for folks new to shooting heads. It used to be that shooting heads weighed the same in the first 30 feet as a WF line. So you would buy an 8 weight or 9 weight shooting head, depending on your preference, for your six weight rod and end up with a head that weighed 210 or 240 respectively. We all knew this, and did it. Have an 8 wt? buy a 10 or 11 wt head. Times were simple.

    Rio decided that it would make more sense to newbies, and I agree it does, to just sell shooting heads "for" six weights. But you still end up buying what used to be a 9 weight shooting head! Six weight WFs weigh 160. 9 weight WFs weigh 240 which is what your rio "6wt shooting head" weighs...

    Good in the long run, but us old schoolers get mightily confused...
     
  3. Mr.E

    Mr.E He called me an Elitist ?? LOL ..what a moron

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    Philister,
    So according to the spec's, the 37.5' shooting head is old school 8wt? What does the (16gms) stand for?
     
  4. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Jrlyman, are you going to use that on a 6 wt rod or a 7 wt rod?

    I think Richard has a "good" point also - instead of trying to cast like a trout cast, think more like "shooting line" in one or two false casts instead.

    Anyhow, Wednesday I think will be my next foray to the Narrows Park beach and I want to try several of the different suggestions asserted herein....:)

    Now of course I'm even thinking of buying a Salt 6 wt "Shooting Head" floating line - maybe even a Wulff Triangle Taper but don't know if they make that in a "Salt" version!

    Just keep spending money until it all comes out right, right? Hehehe! I've heard tell that lotsa money spent can buy success in just about anything....maybe they was jus' talkin' 'bout women, yeah, sure!! I don't think they ever tried fly casting tho....:hmmm:.....it's such a peculiar combination of art & science. :)

    I'll keep at it until I get it right -- preferably before I run out of money :(!!

    Thanks for the input and let me know how your combo works for ya.

    jcnewbie:thumb:
     
  5. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Posted by Philster:
    Trust me on this, sir....it ain't just the "old schoolers" that get mightily confused....:eek::confused::confused:

    I'm still trying to digest your other post/reply and will probably have to ask more dumb questions...:eek:

    Thanks....so far, ha!

    jcnewbie:)
     
  6. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Not sure I get your first question. but gms is grams. Much easier to measure than grains (though less precise obviously) for most of us as digital kitchen scales usually measure grams. A gram is about 15.5 grains. AFTMA (American Fly Tackle Manufacturers Association I believe) line weights were established for uniformity and took the place of the old letter ratings. They probably used grains because a. it was pre-metric system in the US, and b. a fly fisherman was probably an all around sportsmen, and all sportsmen would have a grain scale for reloading the shells for their shotguns:rolleyes: You can see the weights here http://www.flyfishingforum.com/expertise/knowledge/lineratings.htm
     
  7. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    now you can be even more confused - RIO now has gone back to a 6wt shooting head being 175 grains

    RIO Shooting Head Weights
     
  8. Jake L

    Jake L New Member

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    I'll be putting it on a 10' 6wt Echo Classic. Its got a nice medium fast action, with a good strong butt. I figure that overlining may turn out to be a good idea, lots of others do so with positive results, but it may not be necessary and who knows, maybe airflo knew what they were doing when they sized the lines and the 6wt is the right choice?:thumb:
     
  9. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    jcnewbie, we all know I don't know squat, but if you have a shooting line it does not sound like you are shooting it. It sounds like your roll, backcast x3 or more and then launch out an extra 15' or so is the same effect of a standard WF line. I'm sure that you'll find that sweet spot that so many have eluded to, like Philster. I've watched a couple of guys wiht the shooters. Roll, back, LAUNCH a freaking butt ton of line out. They are obviously very much in tune with their setups and well versed in the process. They make it look so freaking easy. For now I'm sticking with my WF setups, but I'll dabble next in the shooting line area to see how stupid I can look.

    Sounds like you will refine this process until it is perfected for you. That is very exceptional dedication, good luck.
     
  10. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  11. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    This thread is probably very informative, but after three times through I'm experiencing some serious head pain.
     
  12. Jake L

    Jake L New Member

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    Ya, seriously painful so I just decided. Now I'm sticking too it no matter what.
     
  13. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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  14. Denny

    Denny Active Member

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    10' six weight? Go ahead and buy that 6 weight 40+ or Outbound, and when it doesn't quite work right for you, let me know and I'll buy it used from you for half price.

    Listen to me now and believe me later . . . :thumb:
     
  15. Jake L

    Jake L New Member

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    I've gone with the 7wt line. Sorry Rich:thumb:
     
  16. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Well....,"A life is not a life well lived unless you have the scars to prove it....!" :ray1:

    Jcnewbie (...lots 'n lots of scars!):D
     
  17. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Mumbles, I've been through this thread (and a couple of others) at least 12 times and have developed a my-grain as a result-you know, blurry vision, shakey hands, weak knees, nausea, vertigo -- you know, all the symptoms of advanced age.....:D!

    Picked up a ton of potentially useful information and so now comes the tough part: Remembering it, making sense of it and then....actually putting it into practice, practice, practice :confused:!

    Funny thing happened last night tho....after hours 'n hours of reading all the posts here, I decided to go to a nearby park and see if could actually employ any of the advice presented:rolleyes: !!

    It was phenomenal :eek:!! 62 feet first cast with one backcast, clear to the end of the line lying on the ground at my feet. 2nd cast, stripped off more line at my feet, kept the backcast high, haul the hell out of it on the forward cast, BINGO....88 feet! :eek:! Because I am now in a state of shock, I step it off again, yep, 88 feet! 3rd cast, strip off more line onto the ground & decide to "false cast" twice before launch - Zinnggg goes the line like a rocket - until the last 10 feet of line on the ground gets snagged up on some clover buds bringing everything to a sudden halt - still it's 91 feet to the yarn on the end.
    Convinced by now of my ultimate invincibility and shirt buttons near to bursting with pride and sense of accomplishment, I gear up for another "Master Class Tournament Cast", not realizing my left foot is on 30 feet or so of line at my feet. Next cast, leader & line loops tangle in the clover as I start the backcast; next cast, bobble the backcast badly = disaster; next cast only goes about 30 feet as the tangles coming off the ground slam into the stripping guide in a big wad.

    Okay...., well so much for Mr. Invincibility and Master Class casting! Take a couple of deep breaths, have a smoke & contemplate my navel….finally settle down and start casting again with remarkable results! Am so confident by now I switch to my left hand (off hand) and try that for awhile with dreary results – guess I’ll stick with the right hand for now!

    At least now I know I CAN do it on the grass, Wednesday we’ll see if I can remember anything and do it on the water….:rolleyes:

    jcnewbie (...it is sooo cool when it all comes together!:D)
     
  18. Stonefish

    Stonefish Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater

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    Good job on the distance. Just keep in mind the beach will have just a little more slope then your local park, which my affect tour distance. At least you don't have to worry about that damn clover on the beach. :D
     
  19. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Right!!:rofl:

    jc :thumb:
     
  20. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

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    Thanks, Stonefish. I'm such a cheap bastige that I was going to take a wild shot at cutting it down to the right length on the first cut, so I can use the remainder for a mini-head. But your suggestion sounds like the right way to go to get it cut "just right." I've been holding off doing this, as I have been contemplating getting a 9wt or 10 wt setup for Kings 'n Lings 'n Sturgeon 'n Things. (Don't ask about the "Things." I've never seen one, anyway, just heard the rumors :eek:) But my budget is floundering on a dry creek bed at the moment, and I'll have to make do with my 8 wt.

     

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