Up one line? Two?

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Jake L, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Posts: 5,663
    Somewhere on the Coast
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    Philster, Thanks for the :beathead: I ended up grinding a few gears, but I think I got your drift.:thumb: the image is floating, drag-free, in my imagination. I hope I can recall it when the time comes.
    No, you don't want to see me cast...not a pretty sight. I thimk I understand the principles involved, but I need practice, lots of practice, and even more practice, to get my timing, stroke, and smooth acceleration down.
    Right now, people see me casting, and they're certain to go buy a spinning outfit. I don't make it look easy to get that fly out there. Maybe all the fly shop owners ought to pool some cash and hire me an instructor before i scare all the fence sitters and potential customers away and they all go broke.:rofl:
  2. SciGuy Active Member

    Posts: 215
    B.I. and surrounding points
    Ratings: +67 / 0
    Very inspiring.:thumb: I've been stuck at 65-70 feet (not including leader/tippet) for the past week...albeit "live" (i.e. thigh deep in the water with a clouser on the line). I'm going to buy myself a good cigar and a nice merlot if/when I hit 90 feet!
  3. jcnewbie Member

    Posts: 854
    Kent, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0

    Yeah, well, like I said, doin' it on the grass in the park and doin' it in/on the water are not necessarily the same thing.....we'll see :rolleyes:!!

    I think my main point is, if it's effortless - meaning, your timing and the rod do all the work - it's like magic, positively astounding how far that line will shoot....:eek:

    ...I never would have believed it had I not seen & experienced it myownself :D!

    jc :beer2:
  4. jcnewbie Member

    Posts: 854
    Kent, Washington
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    I did everything you said above and it works like a charm....on the grass at least, now I just hafta' make it work on the water tomorrow.....:hmmm:!!

    Thanks for the advice....:thumb:

    jc:)
  5. jcnewbie Member

    Posts: 854
    Kent, Washington
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    As you can see in my description, I include the leader/tippet/yarn in my measurments since it is directly connected to the line that I am casting and is ultimately the end that the fishies will see - I hope anyhow :hmmm:!:)

    And like you say - "when you're thigh deep with a clouser on the line..." :rolleyes:

    jc
  6. jcnewbie Member

    Posts: 854
    Kent, Washington
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    The thing I did at the park was use the "Retention Pond" which is a long narrow (dry today) depression with an up-sloping bank about 50' behind me along with several trees to simulate beach casting without having to go to the beach :hmmm:! It mostly worked okay.

    jc
  7. Stonefish Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater

    Posts: 3,861
    Pipers Creek
    Ratings: +1,263 / 1
    No clover in the pond, correct? ;)
    Keep practicing and you'll have it down. It sounds like you are now shooting the line, rather then trying to cast it with a bunch of false casts. That was an excellent point Richard brought up in one of his posts about casting these types of lines.
    That shorter leader with also save you some headaches.
  8. jcnewbie Member

    Posts: 854
    Kent, Washington
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    Yes indeedy, the shorter leader, the mind set to "shoot" the line rather than "casting the line" and the all important change in timing the haul & shoot aspect.

    Works beautifully :D:thumb::D

    jc:)
  9. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,502
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,473 / 9
    Maybe if I can get a two handed cast developed to a point of not being embarassing I'll get myself one of them point and LAUNCH lines. One gear learning curve at a time. The fish learning curve is perpetual. Anything more than that and my mental capacity is greatly exceeded.

    Congrats at the chest pounding 88 feet, I don't care where it was (unless you were in space or something wacky like that).
  10. Mr.E He called me an Elitist ?? LOL ..what a moron

    Posts: 688
    Lakewood,Wa.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Here's a little tid bit but if you watch that video I posted "Graphic Salty Porn", it gives you a good look on casting them heavy heads.:thumb:
  11. Les Johnson Les Johnson

    Posts: 1,590
    .Redmond, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    In the previous thread I only wanted to say that there are so many excellent lines and heads on the tackle shop shelves that whacking up too many expensive lines to build one that is right for one's rod could become a pretty pricey exercise. I know a lot of people who use both shooting heads, Outbound and Outbound "type" lines (SA Streamer Express, etc.) with great success including me.
    For the beach I use floating lines (for poppers and on overcast days at places like Eglon. Like most of the folks on this thread, I like intermediate lines for the bulk of my beach fishing. In my experience intermediate lines do not stratify when being retrieved; they continue to sink slowly.
    When I'm fishing a beach like Lincoln Park that has a rather steep incline (if you've checked it out a a low tide it is pretty steep and deep) I somtimes use a fast sinking integrated head or shooting head to get down deeper; particularly when there are chinook around.
    It would be nice to get Jimmy LeMert at Patrick's Fly Shop to weigh in on this issue. He was FFF state distance casting champion for two straight years. I believe that he uses an Outbound for most of his beach fishing.
    Les
  12. Denny Active Member

    Posts: 4,048
    Seattle, WA, USA.
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    Observations, from personal experience, on shooting head systems with looped heads vs. integrated head lines.

    For versatility and economics, a shooting head sytem is a great choice. For versatility, a person can carry a number of varying heads in a shooting head wallet, and effectively have the equivalent of several different types of lines. Economically, the savings in not having to buy extra spools for individual lines, along with the requisite backing and extra lines for said spools.

    HOWEVER, there is a downside to these systems. I have a number of different shooting head systems, 6 weight to 12 weight, and (to me) the effectiveness is affected by the size of the guides on the rod. During casting, the loops connecting the head and the running line can kind of get 'stuck'. I make some of my loops (out of braided line), with different sizes for different weight heads, and generally speaking they'll go whipping through the guides pretty well when casting. However, at the junction of the loops there is still 'bump' that isn't there on full fly lines. In rods with (relatively) small guides, those 'bumps' can be a pain in the rear.

    So, the nice things about the integrated head lines is that a person can get the performance of a shooting head line without the downside of the connection getting 'stuck' in some of the guides.

    For beach fishing in the Puget Sound, I find myself using one or two lines primarily from the beach so, to me, it's worth the extra dinero to get an extra spool and have two lines as opposed to using a shooting head system on my 6 weight. The guides are just often very small in the 6 weight.

    However, for my 8 weight up to my 12 weight, I use both full lines and the shooting head sytem.

    It's all a trade off!
  13. Philster New Member

    Posts: 2,477
    .
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    Yup. I usually stop my retrieve before getting the head in the tip, or with versitip lines before the loop comes in the tip. With poppers I 'll always tease a little before pulling in all of the running line. The "they hit right at the tip top" thing is kind of a myth. They actually hit where you stopped your normal retrieve and went into your pickup routine. If you retrieved all the way to your leader, that's where it happened. if you stopped retrieving 37 feet out, that's where it happened. There's no magic in the tip top... We fishers are a superstitious bunch who don't engage in much deep thought...
  14. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,465
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +524 / 0
    Yes, some six weights have to small of guides, such has Sage Z-Axis and XP's. I wish they would enlargen them and go to two stripping guides on the SW 6's....but weight is part of the game in selling these rods and they save a 1/4 ounce or so doing so. Kudo's to TFO and some other rod makers for producing rods with (oversized) guides....there not really oversized if they are the fisherman's desired size of guides.
  15. Jake L New Member

    Posts: 345
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    So here's my update. I've had my Echo Classic 10' 6 wt with the Airflo Outbound 40+ 7wt fast sink intermediate for a couple days. It is awesome. The head feels slightly heavy for the rod, but not too bad, I may cut off a foot or so, I'm thinking about it first...
    So I head out to the beach to give things a try. Its still dark, but I've rigged up before hand and so I start fishing, or trying to. My very first cast was about 50'. Not bad. I strip in, cast out about 80'. Holy Crap! That was my longest cast of the day though. After that I hit a wall at about 65-70'. I kept improving, using fewer backcasts, getting more accuracy, more of the casts pushing 70' than earlier in the day. But I just couldn't get any more distance. If I tried for more, I'd get a trailing loop. I tried smoothing out the power, I tried putting it on later. I tried longer strokes, I tried shorter. I could cast out to 70 just fine with good (relatively) loops, but any time I tried to push it they fell apart.

    So I went out for some grass casting. It was super confidence boosting. I was hitting about 80-85 on my better casts. But just couldn't get her to go any further, curiously I had no trouble with trailing loops. Must have been that I was tired out there on the beach.

    So there's my casting report. I think I'll be able to get some more distance with practice, and perhaps a lower tide would help keep my back casts out of rocks, logs, dogs, joggers, machinery, car tires, etc. Oh and that let a few feet slip thing adds a good 8 feet, when I get it right. Thanks for all the help.
  16. Philster New Member

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    .
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    :rolleyes:
  17. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,502
    Kitsap Peninsula
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    Jake after your thread and you getting the airflow 40+ 7wt for your 6wt rod (and thinking it was a bit heavy) I got the 40+ 7 for my 7. Done! Now I'll see if I can get the casting thing down and chuck some serious line out.
  18. SciGuy Active Member

    Posts: 215
    B.I. and surrounding points
    Ratings: +67 / 0
    This is exactly where I am right now...I just can't break 70. Good thing for both of us that there are fish within 70 feet of shore! Keep at it!
  19. Denny Active Member

    Posts: 4,048
    Seattle, WA, USA.
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    Dude, for you and your particular 10' 7 wt., you should have gotten the 8 wt. I'll be interested to see how the line works out for you; send me a PM from time to time.
  20. Stonefish Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater

    Posts: 3,861
    Pipers Creek
    Ratings: +1,263 / 1
    For those who haven't ever cast shooting heads, the integrated lines (40+ or OB) will take some getting use to. Once you get over the urge to do a bunch of false casts and start shooting the line, your distance will improve. Finding the sweet spot for your rod is the key with these lines.