Upcoming tides preview of rising sea levels?

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Jonathan Stumpf, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,522
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,497 / 9
    GT, don't let my neighbors to the slight west hear that. They tire of my "I'm waiting for my own high bluff property" jokes. I've not been out to the spit in a couple of years. I better get out there soon with the girls so they can see it for the marvel of nature that it is. Maybe we'll ring your doorbell on Sunday!
  2. codswallower Member

    Posts: 80
    seattle wa
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Nobody stands to make any money by fomenting hysteria about global warming. And yeah, you don't like Al Gore. However the corporations that fund the global warming "skepticism" thank you for spreading their misinformation!
  3. Tod Fossetta Sorry, I'm not set up for that.


    There is no misinformation in what I posted, and I do not support corporations that pollute and pillage our environment. It is a fact from public record in Ca., sorry if you don't want to hear the "inconvenient truth".
  4. Steffan Brown ...

    Posts: 548
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +64 / 0
    Thank you riseform. I was curious about this recent scandal as well, but didn't look into it deeper until now. I thought this non-partisan point of view was interesting and well founded. They sourced information from American Association for the Advancement of Science, NASA and NOAA, as well as articles or stories written by the BBC, Time and ABC News. Turns out the emails in Climategate were in fact shady, but concluded to not be hiding any data that disproves the human impact of climate change and global warming.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/
  5. Blktailhunter Active Member

    Posts: 161
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    I think any rise in sea level is the least of the worries of the Dungeness Split. It's worst enemy is erosion. It is just a matter of time before nature does its thing and the split is no more.
  6. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    well blktailhunter, rising sea levels will guarantee that deposition no longer occurs leading to the demise of the dungeness spit. these events are linked don't'yah see?
  7. Blktailhunter Active Member

    Posts: 161
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    No. Waves, wind, gravity, human activity, rain, tectonic movement and several other factors all cause erosion. There is nothing man can to to prevent it. Sooner or later the split is going to disappear. Such are the ways of nature.
  8. DimeBrite MA-9 Beach Stalker

    Posts: 923
    Marine Area 9
    Ratings: +400 / 0
    Erosion is the friend of Dungeness Spit, in fact it is how it was formed in the first place. The spit is growing longer as we speak. When first built the lighthouse was at the end of the spit, now the tip is considerably further out. Sand from the eroded bluffs are continually being added to the spit by tide and current.
  9. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,499
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,695 / 2
    The facts:
    [IMG]]
  10. riseform Active Member

    Posts: 1,100
    Tacoma, WA
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    My pleasure. That was a good read.

    This reminds me of the Clinton scandal. Virtually every member of his party ignored disturbing evidence to defend the man in the interest of protecting their hold on the presidency. The office was more important than the truth. He (and they) would still be denying the events if Monica hadn't saved the dress.

    While not a semen stained dress, these hacked emails are similarly troubling. They expose the politicization of these "scientists", whose unacceptable behavior damages the credibility of all science. Unlike politics, science has traditionally embraced dissent (though Galileo may disagree). We'll see what the subsequent investigations and law suits reveal. In the mean time, the global warming/climate change advocates will continue to behave like the past Clinton defenders.
  11. johnnyrockfish Member

    Posts: 320
    Kitsap County, WA
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    Get the popcorn out...

    Did you know that the main difference between Clinton and GW Bush was that Bush wanted to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth?:)
  12. riseform Active Member

    Posts: 1,100
    Tacoma, WA
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    700 plus posts and I think I have yet to produce one that's popcorn worthy....

    My intent was to emphasize the importance of scientists not becoming politicized. Once this boundary line is crossed, the science loses credibility. As for politics, it's mostly entertainment to me (until my taxes get raised).
  13. Go Fish Language, its a virus

    Posts: 1,285
    Rheomode, Wa.
    Ratings: +94 / 0
    When I look for information on climate and the local weather
    I go to the Dr. Cliif Mass blog (cliffmass.blogspot.com).
    Go to the archives for 2009
    and read his post on Climate Gate.

    It is a good read that puts this issue in perspective.


    Dave
  14. Steffan Brown ...

    Posts: 548
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +64 / 0
    So, do I understand you correctly, in that you believe global warming/climate change advocates will stop at nothing to defend the scientists emails that are under review? I think the point of that article was that the emails didn't change any substantiated evidence that global warming exists and is being made worse by humans. Furthermore, that some scientists from a small institution in England are not the backbone, basis or catalysts for evidence collected by scientists from around the world. The idea that these emails blow the roof off of the climate change establishment is simply naive and not giving enough credit to the scale of research that has gone into the data proving global warming to be real. Sure, there are bound to be opportunists that will want to make a buck out of capitalizing on peoples fears. This is unfortunate, unacceptable and inevitable. Whether it's politics or science, some people just cannot be trusted beyond their own selfish motivations, but that doesn't mean the hard work of those individuals working on behalf of the common good should be left in the dust and forgotten about.
  15. riseform Active Member

    Posts: 1,100
    Tacoma, WA
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    Google Barbara Boxer (Email theft gate)

    To me, global warming/climate change comes down to three core issues.

    1) is it man made, nature or a combination of both?...... I don't know, but I'm willing to listen to all sides (*see below)
    2) if it is man made, can man do anything to stop it?.......nobody knows
    3) Do I trust those who would empower themselves, restrict my freedoms and further tax my income in the name of this cause...hell no

    * I'll confess, it's a lot easier for me to digest a piece like this from Howard Bloom http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004574599981936018834.html than it is to stomach a presentation from Al Gore. I remember the predictions of the coming ice age in the 1970s and I'll remember today's predictions in a few more decades....time will tell.
  16. dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Posts: 4,102
    Near the Fjord
    Ratings: +567 / 0
    Answer to

    #1---- Have you ever read anything about what man has done to this planet, let alone, just look around?
    #2---- Of course we can. Bought any new energy saving lightbulbs lately? Of course, it takes some politics... oh, how terrible.
    #3---- Restrict your freedoms? Do you ever recycle? Does that restrict your freedoms?

    Pull you head out young man! :beathead:
  17. riseform Active Member

    Posts: 1,100
    Tacoma, WA
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    sorry if I was too vague.... Google "cap and trade legislation"

    Look beyond the emotional "stick it to the greedy corporate polluters" schadenfreude for an analysis like this:
    "The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Low-income Americans, who devote more of their disposable income to energy, have more to lose than high-income families."

    As for the remainder of your post, addressing it further would violate the cardinal rule of debate, with one exception:
    Thank you for calling me young :thumb:
  18. johnnyrockfish Member

    Posts: 320
    Kitsap County, WA
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    Riseform, your friends in the opinion room at the WSJ and the Heritage Foundation have been fighting energy reform for 30+ years using the same set of arguments that you state above -"it'll be bad for the economy". Well it is obvious that ignoring energy issues is no longer an option and we're further behind the ball because of 30 years of inaction by our nation's leaders. Germany has hired all the solar power talent from the US and Europe in general is way ahead in developing creative alternatives. We've had our head stuck in the sand for 3 decades because of the thinking that you outline above which can be summed up like this: "we can't do better". Well I happen to believe that this nation does best when faced with a challenge, it's when we shine. The people you quote would rather not address the issues honestly, they're stuck in the same endless loop of "it'll hurt the economy". I'm proud that we are finally facing issues like climate change and energy independence. I'm sick of this country not seeking the highest and best goals for ourselves and the rest of the world. What makes us a great nation is our ability to rise to challenges but for the last 30 years, since President Carter, no one has asked us to step up to the challenge. The rest of the world is moving forward on energy, do we want to be a leader or a follower?
  19. mud sculpin New Member

    Posts: 13
    university place , wa.
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    I agree our planet is a polluted mess and we need to take steps to clean her up, but I'm still not convinced that global warming / climate change is completely a man made problem. What happened thousands of years ago when the northern united states was covered with glaciers and then melted ? What made them melt back then... I dont think humans contributed to that global warm up period .... i'm more inclined to think that solar output is more of a factor in the rise and fall of global temps than we are... just my two cents......
  20. johnnyrockfish Member

    Posts: 320
    Kitsap County, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Mudsculpin I agree with both points of your post. I don't think we can "prove" that we've contributed to climate change since we weren't collecting baseline data 10,000 years ago, those lazy cavemen! Your first point is the more relevant to me, we should challenge ourselves and the world community to reduce our emissions since we know it's not good for us. The basic question is not whether we've created climate change but rather if we're interested in reducing the pollution we spew into the world we live in. We've come a long way since Nixon signed the Clean Air Act and we should be proud of it and keep pushing ourselves.