WDFW Announces Puget Sound river closures for 2012

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Wild Steelhead Coalition, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    6,921
    Media:
    8
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,956
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Hatchery steelhead do not attack flies like wild steelhead so any discussion thinking they do doesn't matter. This is after all a "fly fishing" board. I work in the real world not your make believe one. There is ample evidence that hatcheries are a contributing factor in the decline of wild steelhead so they should go away. The return on investment for hatchery steelhead alone should be enough to eliminate them. Fishing opportunity has nothing to do with this.
     
  2. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    428
    Media:
    172
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ellensburg, Washington
    Home Page:
    This should be read by every person on this forum as it is totally true and has been the issue conservative sportsmen (like 90% of us) have been fighting for 30 years and exactly why the dept. supporters claim the mirror effect.
    WDFW has never liked the manegment of wild fish, if you cant take the word of Bill Bakke the godfather himself then whom do you trust?

    Kerry thanks for the link....

    Those of you needing a sugar coated version of reality,,,They are steelhead they are tougher than you think and CAN come back to fishable levels again, you just need to see through the bullshit from the political shovle and fight for what you want.
     
  3. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,640
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    930
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    ...and it would appear that, from your port hole, it is a wild steelhead forum only. Guess that fish caught by Joe B. yesterday on the Green River thread, using a swung fly, must have been a once in a lifetime event?
     
  4. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
  5. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,226
    Media:
    133
    Likes Received:
    649
    Location:
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make but I assure you its hopeless. I dont care what you've done in the past and what your stance on hatcheries was in 1984 but the year is currently 2012 and it is a fact that puget sound hatchery programs are a financial and physical failure and ANY possible negative interaction with the struggling wild stocks are enough to warrant their closure. I understand there are sections of the angling community who will disagree.

    Some people actually enjoy the comraderie of standing shoulder to shoulder at the hatchery creek mouth for a couple weeks every year hoping to hook a chromer before it runs up the ladder. I and many many others realize the value of wild steelhead and the experience chasing them can offer. I'm young and new to the game and wish every day that I could have seen these rivers in their prime. I can't help but feel I came way too late to the party. It's a shame. But I'm stubborn and hopelessly passionate about these fish and willing to do as necessary to stand up for them. Thanks to all that have contributed great info, appreciate all the links provided definitely been some new info to me.
     
  6. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,640
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    930
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    The point is that the "wild steelhead religion" isn't the only view concerning this sport fishery. You might also go back and read post #21. Lastly, if you haven't already done so, spend some of your passion doing some activity that helps rebuild habitat... and be a bit less condescending to those of us who have already done so for future generations like yourself.
     
  7. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
    I think that Sean is one of the last people who should be attacked for not doing shit. I don't know you or anything about you other than what you've posted here, but I gotta say I stand with Sean and Kerry on this.

    But I guess I can be classified as a religious wild steelhead zealot.
     
  8. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    6,921
    Media:
    8
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,956
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Perhaps it is a wild steelhead forum. This I can't say but the name of the site is "Washington Fly Fishing". From this I can feel fairly confident saying it is a fly fishing forum.

    I am a wild fish advocate. I will support any effort that benefits wild fish. If that contradicts what you support then we will never agree. Pretty simple. It seems pretty obvious that I have chosen a losing effort and you have chosen a winning one when it comes to wild fish over hatchery fish. The hatcheries continue to pump out fish while wild fish go extinct. Congratulations on supporting the destruction of our wild fish runs and making sure you have something to fish for. Nice to know we have people like you fighting hard to protect artificial man made fisheries so we can have weekend fishing on our favorite rivers. Never mind that what was once world class fishing for wild steelhead is now for ever gone as long as we can head down to the local sand bar and plunk up a nice hatchery drone. Thanks for protecting this and making sure my grandchildren might never see a native, wild Washington steelhead.

    Done with arguing with you over hatcheries; we will never agree.
     
  9. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,640
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    930
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    Kerry,
    Sorry to hear you (and others) see this through such a singular point of view. If you read some of my previous posts, you'll see that I was quite involved with fishery enhancement programs, both hatchery and wild. Myself and those in the clubs back then were unpaid citizens who cared deeply then and still do now about the resource. The same bitching sessions went on then as they do know. I regret to say that when you're older and eventually pass the baton off to those coming behind you, the same debates may be on (but I hope not).

    Hindsight is almost always 20/20 and if I knew then what I know now, my commitment to some of the efforts may have been different...maybe not. We worked with the states regional biologists who were the principal voice in the efforts we made. That said, your comments "Congratulations on supporting the destruction of our wild fish runs and making sure you have something to fish for. Nice to know we have people like you fighting hard to protect artificial man made fisheries so we can have weekend fishing on our favorite rivers" are both inconsiderate and naive to facts.

    As has been discussed in this thread (and probably several dozen before it), the problem the wild fish face is MUCH MUCH BIGGER than whether we maintain hatchery fish and to what extent. Loss of habitat and being a commodity for sale are the key elements. If we spent more time and effort restoring the one and eliminating the other, the hatchery question/debate would resolve itself with time.

    Yes, this is a fly fishing forum and it has fly fisherman and women with different backgrounds and points of view that can respectfully disagree.

    Tightlines
     
  10. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
    I just don't understand how anyone could support hatcheries over wild fish. The fact is that hatcheries do little to nothing to "supplement" our steelhead runs. What they in fact do is merely replace the natives with hatchery clones.

    Take the Toutle for instance. Just a few years after Mt. St Helens erupts, and there are nearly 3,000 wild, native steelhead returning to a river that was flowing boiling mud previously. What's the state's answer to that? Hatchery fish! The wild fish population immediately collapsed after the introduction of those hatchery clones, and that's about all it gets now.

    On the rivers of the OP, the wild runs used to peak around December. Once the hatchery fish were introduced, within a few years, the wild fish from November, December, and January are next to non-existent compared to their former numbers. Those two examples alone should show what hatcheries do to our wild runs. In just about every case, we ended up with a total returning population, both wild and hatchery combined, that is smaller than the previously returning wild population. It'd be nice if for once, we could shut down a hatchery or two just to see what might happen.
     
  11. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
  12. jagfish

    jagfish New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Port Townsend, WA
    They catch alot on the Quinault...
     
  13. bugnuts

    bugnuts Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    U.P., WA
    The steelhead were here before us, and they will be here after we're gone. We've played god in our "management" of them, and the only thing we've done is to reduce the numbers of wild fish in Puget Sound rivers to the point where we have to prevent ourselves from playing with them anymore. Yes they've been overfished as a commodity, yes the habitat has been destroyed, but to the extent that hatcheries have contributed to the decline, they need to be nuked.
     
  14. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    799
    Media:
    36
    Likes Received:
    182
    Location:
    Gig Harbor, Washington
    Evan I could be wrong but in the case of the numbers of early returning wild steelhead on the OP declining when the hatchery programs started could have to do with the increased pressure of tribal gill netters to catch those hatchery fish and as we both know gill nets do not discriminate between hatchery or native fish. So I am not completely sold on the idea that it is actually the hatchery fish them selves that are hurting the early native run of fish but more than likely the increase gill net fishery. I am not saying hatchery fish do not effect native fish but I do not think it is to the extent that most people think and obviously it varies from river to river.
     
  15. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
    The gill nets are in almost as much in December as they are in March most years.
     
  16. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,640
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    930
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    And gone with them will be the coalition of people who share the same passion, who bring vital funding and manpower needed to change the direction and hopefully restore wild stocks. Like it or not, this did not happen overnight, is a complex political issue, and simply demonizing and eliminating hatcheries at the snap of a switch will not get us to the end game - IMO.
     
  17. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
  18. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    799
    Media:
    36
    Likes Received:
    182
    Location:
    Gig Harbor, Washington
    your right overharvest and hatcheries are linked but the agencies in charge of managing the resource (WDFW and the Tribes) are allowing the overharvest. Recreational anglers can release native steelhead that are caught on hook and line unharmed but the tribes cannot release native steelhead that have been caught in a gill net alive. In short native steelhead will never make a come back as long as there is a commercial fishery for them or they are a by catch of another commercial fishery. Commercial fishing tribal or non tribal needs to stop before any valid attempt to save native steelhead can be made.
     
  19. slippery_whippet

    slippery_whippet Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    229
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA
    SPOT ON, we all need to understand this single point and then make our legislators understand it as well!
     
  20. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    6,921
    Media:
    8
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,956
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Are you saying hatcheries are the bonding agent for differing groups to work together to restore fisheries? Without hatcheries any efforts to restore fish is hopeless? This is one of the most absurd thoughts I have ever heard.
     

Share This Page