Well are they or not...

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by FinLuver, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    "We need to maintain healthy and abundant wild populations not only for their own sake, but to be a supply of fish for hatchery production and to keep hatchery programs cost effective," Bakke said.


    Guess "they' are not as bad for our streams as has been previously purported...after all, this quote comes from the "expert".
     
  2. PT

    PT Physhicist

    I think we should just wipe out all wild runs so the state is finally satisfied.
     
  3. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member

    If you don't think Bill Bakke is an expert then you are, well, ummm, how can I put this nicely? Uninformed?

    What he is saying is IF we have a healthy population of wild fish then hatchery fish are okay. As the new science everybody loves to jump on says, if a river has reached its carrying capacity then hatchery fish aren't a big threat to wild fish. Problem is pretty much every river is WAY under its carrying capacity.

    But I'm no expert, so you ain't heard it from me...
     
  4. Jason Rolfe

    Jason Rolfe Wanderer

    Ooh. Yay! Finluver is back!
     
  5. Jmills81

    Jmills81 The Dude Abides

    someone doesnt understand context
     
  6. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Ya I know boys...kinda sucks when the "center of your faith" rocks the world with statements like that to the press.
    Not only that, his organization provided the link as well .
     
  7. Chris DeLeone

    Chris DeLeone Active Member

    can someone put up the link discussed or bring a little more context to the thread - thanks
     
  8. Jason Rolfe

    Jason Rolfe Wanderer

  9. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    I interpreted Bakke's statement as that wild fish for brood stock was a good idea to supplement wild runs. I liked the idea of the broodstock program before it was cancelled...... and I suppose there's probably more ways of trying to figure out what Bakke meant.
     
  10. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member


    What sucks about it?

    Its actually a perfectly logical statement if you understand whats going on... Have you ever considered there is a gray area between no hatcheries and the level of hatcheries we have now?
     
    Jason Rolfe likes this.
  11. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member


    Broodstock only works if you have enough wild fish reaching the gravel to sacrifice some. Right now that is not the case.

    Agree with you though, that is just my interpretation on it.
     
  12. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Yard Sale... "gray"

    I used to work as a manufacturer's rep in the big orange box stores...we had a saying, "Everything Is Grey - In The World Of Orange"

    What's that mean?

    Loosely...it's only true, if it's for my own gain - not yours.

    It's always convenient to live in a grey world, but then again that's exactly what we have been doing for decades... could just be why things are the way they are.

    Bakke has access to this and other forums where I have posted his quote...He and only He can tell us what he meant... I'm sure a little CYA damage control will be his path. ;)
     
  13. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Jason Rolfe... NO - not the source of quote; but I do have that one as well.
     
  14. Rob Allen

    Rob Allen Active Member

    lets see over 100 years of nearly 100% reliance on hatcheries has given us what??? reduced harvest, reduced recreation there is one thing we have however increased,, the number of endangered species...

    at least the wild fish "faith" is based on something that is not a completely proven failure like the hatchery "faith" is.
     
  15. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    RA...
    "lets see over 100 years of nearly 100% reliance on hatcheries has given us what??? reduced harvest, reduced recreation there is one thing we have however increased,, the number of endangered species...

    at least the wild fish "faith" is based on something that is not a completely proven failure like the hatchery "faith" is."

    Let me guess... I bet your "wild fish faith" says it's the hatcheries' fault for their decline too. ;)
     
  16. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Print the source of the quote or you are just attacking another person, anonomously, and taking their words out of context.

    At least if you put it in context you will just be attacking a person anonomously.

    BTW- I know little of the CR/ Oregon hatchery v. wild fish disagreements that this thread comes from. I do know that the personal way you (finluver) have attacked people, both on this board and off undermines whatever message you have.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  17. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    After reading through this paper, my take is that the use of hatcheries (for experiments) to both improve wild fish stocks and satiate the demand for harvesting fish is a compromise. To Rob's point, the results we're seeing from the current paradigm of "the more we put in the more we get back" is proving to have only benefits for harvesting fish, while the situation for wild fish takes a diverging and depressing path.

    The studies being done in controlled environments to benefit wild fish that are funded by harvest-based activities seems to make sense, especially if the research leads us to the answers for reducing wild/hatchery spawning interactions - one of the most telling bits of information taken from the paper.

    "If reproductively sterile hatchery fish can be stocked in selective watersheds to support recreational angling harvest then a major concern of hatchery - wild interactions will be resolved."

    If it is true that our watersheds are under carrying capacity, and that the demand for harvest isn't going away, then making consensus decisions about impacting opportunity would be easier to reach - the common ground being in the where and how those fish are harvested while protecting wild populations. I'd rather see the research being done with my tax dollars focused on developing solutions like eliminating spawning interactions between wild and hatchery fish while maintaining harvest opportunities for those who wish to. Like dams, not all hatcheries are bad, just the ones that have a negative impact on wild, native fish.
     
    freestoneangler likes this.
  18. Jason Rolfe

    Jason Rolfe Wanderer

    Exactly.

    Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
     
  19. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Note how those who attack science use the word "faith" to describe those who believe in crazy things like facts. Finluver is just a pro-hatchery, anti-science troll.

    The science is clear on hatchery x wild interactions. No amount of static noise coming from the "know nothings" changes that.
     
    JS and sopflyfisher like this.
  20. Jmills81

    Jmills81 The Dude Abides

    Yeah for Trolling dickheads....

    All i know is that a wild fish is a wild fish. I want to make sure there's more of them.