Well are they or not...

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by FinLuver, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Renton, wa
    I just hope we dont try to copy that hatchery program in the Great Lakes region. You know, the guys who used our own NW stock not that long ago. the fishing there is just awful.:)
     
  2. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
    you continually write that the native fish society has it's facts wrong without stating which facts are wrong. please be specific about which claims are "downright preposterous".

    without being specific your "arguments" will not be taken seriously.
     
  3. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
    i see how this works. as long as there is no "perfect" study we can do nothing because we don't "know" absolutely everything.

    so you say we need a study that is 100% impossible to obtain to make any decisions about hatcheries.

    this is another play from the playbook of the "know nothing" anti-science camp.

    unfortunately for finluver, this isn't ifish and we're not gonna let his confusion become contagious.

    finluver, be specific as asked or STFU.
     
  4. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
    you do realize that their survival from smolt to adult is off the charts and could never be replicated in the NW due to the differences between staying in freshwater and anadromy.
     
  5. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley
    No Chris Bellows...it's time for YOU TO STFU!!
     
  6. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley
    Klickrolf,

    I've read of the "egg box" approach and agree natural rearing and selection would be an alternative, but the things I've read and the pictures I've seen have shown a poor result, especially when the box gets wiped out by high water events,
     
  7. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
    again, what specifically is the NFS stating that is "downright preposterous"?
     
    Jason Rolfe likes this.
  8. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,915
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    The Salt
    Which rivers are you talking about, and which species in those rivers?

    Again, specifics matter if you want to have a discussion.
     
  9. underachiever

    underachiever !

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    893
    Media:
    5
    Likes Received:
    652
    Location:
    suburban hell
    The quote is only a problem if you're of the slippery slope mentality exhibited on cryFish. The pudding brains on cryFish think the NFS targeting specific hatcheries means they'll target all of them and, as far as I can tell, that's never been a stated as a goal. Bakke's comment can still be in line with the mission of the NFS since it seems they're willing to accept that hatcheries are going to continue to be part of the approach, just not on every single river.
     
  10. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,635
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    927
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    Another one chooses to take his toys and go pout...I'm sure FinLuver is devastated :rolleyes:. Seems some simply cannot handle those that don't sing in harmony with the choir.
     
  11. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,635
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    927
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    Finding some compromise is always a good start (good post Derek). Everyone I know wants rivers teeming with wild fish just as much as they want to fish. The genie is out of the bottle and hatcheries are not going away (IMO). Finding ways forward with these facts in mind will likely result in more fish and less pissing matches...just saying.
     
  12. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    17,870
    Media:
    283
    Likes Received:
    1,682
    Location:
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Everyone should simmer the fuck down before the thread gets the padlock.

    I will give my unsolicited spin. It goes like this. The native brood stock and hatchery program has possible value in the rivers we have already destroyed. Perhaps there a recovery can be seen from a hatchery recreation perspective. IMHO, and nothing more than that, any river with wild fish at all, even the most precariously holding on, should be left alone. No hatchery plant influence. Anyone want to tell me to STFU? Anyone want to tell me I can't have an opinion?
     
  13. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley
    And your point would be "what?" there Ed?

    By your "opinion"... there should NO Hatchery Fish...PERIOD

    All rivers have "wild" fish... (but you already knew that).
     
  14. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley
    Freestoneangler...did I miss something?

    I have most of the "choir" on IGNORE. :D
     
  15. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    17,870
    Media:
    283
    Likes Received:
    1,682
    Location:
    Kitsap Peninsula
    My point annonymous screen name user that tends to agitate the masses, if we've already killed the river, for sure, planting hatchery smolts can do no more harm. If evidence of spawning wild pairs remain, hatchery fish should NOT, for any reason, be introduced. Clear enough? I thought it was pretty easy to read before.

    I don't know how they do things in Oregon, but here in Washington humans trying to help by introducing hatchery fish seems to be doing more harm than good. Based on my opinion, gut, feeling...no claim to any empirical evidence or statistics backing what I believe. Just one man putting his opinion all side his name.

    I'm a moderator. I do not have the luxury of an ignore list like so many pride yourselves on and brag about. I do not hide behind a screen name. Here I am, right out in the open sharing my own two cents.

    Now, how about a civil discourse?
     
    John Hicks, rory and Derek Young like this.
  16. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley
    Well Ed, there are more "wild" fish in a river system than the fish we throw in from hatcheries; and it's that short sightedness that is the root of the problem.

    And it's an "easy read" if all things are not considered.

    Fair Enough??
     
  17. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    361
    Location:
    Bellingham Wa.
    Never mind.
     
  18. JS

    JS Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    877
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    68

    Obviously you never look at the Bonneville dam counts.
     
  19. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Mid-Willamette Valley
    FinLuver said:
    Well Ed, there are more "wild" fish in a river system than the fish we throw in from hatcheries; and it's that short sightedness that is the root of the problem.

    And it's an "easy read" if all things are not considered.

    Fair Enough??​
    -----------------​
    JS said: Obviously you never look at the Bonneville dam counts.​
    ----------------------​
    And the tea in China means what?​
     
  20. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,633
    Media:
    147
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Location:
    Grand Coulee, WA
    What the hell? Now you're quoting yourself? At least your nonsense threads and posts are morbidly entertaining:) Kind of like watching a train wreck. I just can't look away.
     
    Jason Rolfe likes this.

Share This Page