Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Jeff Hale, Jan 5, 2009.
Steve has it right.
William, Jason just said you're really old. Are you going to take that shit?
Thanks brothers. I am heading out to meet up with Aaron and Mike Kinney. And, I know that I need to slow down, and then slow down even more. The problem is getting myself to do that. This shit really is like practicing Zen. The harder you try the worse it gets. I love all you guys using terms like "Jedi" and "Master". I guess I will have to "trust my senses and use the force" the next time "my feelings betray me" and I feel like breaking the damn rod into 20 pieces and flinging it across the river.
I started with the pre-skagit line "built" by Mark Bachman in Welches a few years back. Then switched to a windcutter for tips and a DT for dry line work. Everything work the same but different. I would practice what you plan on fishing.
Before you break that rod drop it off at my house.
I used to practice when the rivers were blown out so no one could see me...
oh man, I'm shameless...I'd go down to Blue Creek and whip the water into a froth:rofl:
Awesome question, awesome responses. I'm such a hack I've barely fondled my two hander, but I know that I have a lot to learn. Some of that learning happened right here. Much of it will happen over time I hope. Eventually I'll get to Aaron or Mike or they will find themselves in Kitsap looking for something to do one day.
Age 10 or 12 (and I'm 66+ now) up in "BC." Green-hart rod and after an hour .. it was take a nap on the beach time. Dear God, those things were heavy. The line was 'silk' so you had to 'grease it up' every few hours or it would sink like a rock. (Which might not have been a bad thing, but who knew back then?)
As stated above,with all the good instructors out there you would be stupid not to get a few pointers. I never took a lesson(probably would have helped) but have managed to progress nicely on my own with the help of friends who spey cast.There were not a ton of instructors out there when I started.
I started with a forgiving 15 ft rod and a mid-spey line and I think that it helped me get the basics down. As my technique improved and shorter lines became more available, it was way easier to cast lines of all lengths. I think starting with a longer line and getting that down makes casting shorter lengths easier. Many today start with short skagit and skandi lines and never care to learn to cast anything longer than that.
Longer belly lines are a kick,don't deny them their place.
Inland said a while back that he was making fly reels at a time when I was a baby. That means he has been doing this for a "really long time", at least by my standards And for the record, I didn't use the "o" word.
On the River Clinics
Mike Kinney, the Skagit God Father, and Aaron Reimer, both qualify as Jedi Masters. They have the patience of Job. And for the price of a tank of gas (from where you are) you can attend those on the river clinics, take advantage of the try racks, cast different setups and meet not only two of the nicest guys in world of Spey, but a whole bunch of other people just like yourself. Do it.
As for how & where did some of us learn? Ha, ha. Try So. Ca. Where the only moving water is the surf. And hardly anyone knows anything about two hand rods. Casting ponds, in city parks. Double taper lines. Pre internet. Windcutter tips lines were damn hard to come by down there. And like most, when you actually tied on a real fly, it was a six inch bunny leech,,,with dumb bell eyes.
It takes a while to learn that you don't just loop a 15ft sink tip to the end of your floating line. Or try and cast that ^&** bunny leech from a 15ft tapered leader! :beathead:
I learned about 11 years ago on a Windcutter and was "thrown into the fire feet first" by Mark Bachmann while guiding me down the Deschutes one September for steelies. I tried to stick to my single hander, but Mark insisted I learn the double. I actually was able to cast somewhat decently by the end of the day and I did hook fish, but I did beat the water to a froth and Bachmann was riding me like a Mutha' all day long ("slow down, lift the rod up higher, give that damn thing to me!"). After getting somewhat proficient at the WC, I moved to longer belly lines which really make you focus on the fundamentals/mechanics of casting. I'm a pretty decent caster now, but still have days when I want to chuck the whole outfit in the river and be done with it. Today's Skagits/Scandis are great, but you can have pretty crappy mechanics and still cast these lines. Learn on a longer belly line FIRST, get your mechanics down, then go to skagits--you'll be a better caster for it. For the first time this year I just started throwing skagits/scandis and these lines are ridiculously easy to cast. But I know if I hadn't learned to cast longer belly lines first, this wouldn't be the case.
I learned with a windcutter as well. Starting with a skagit will shorten the learning curve and get you fishing quicker.
You will be a more well rounded caster if you learn with a standard short-mid belly line.
The only exception being if you intend to only use a skagit set up.
IMHO, fishing is fishing and casting is casting. I love both but I don't think about one when I am doing the other.
I have the 1016-3 brownie as my first rod with a rio grand line on it, doesn't feel too fast at all for me. I get a real buzz casting that setup. when i hit the sweet spot. wow . effortless 100' casts,
when im not having my day.... i get my #7 12'6" with a shooting head KAPOW shoots it out too
still like to aerialize a long line more than a shooting head. better mending too, and no need for stripping in line at the end of the swing
Seems to me tips were much easier to throw than a heavy fly, even with a Skagit.
I too started with a Windcutter, but I lost those lines in a truck prowl. Now it's heads and running line with no way of turning back.
Just an addendum for Haunted-
There ~was~ a Sage 9140-3 that preceeded the better known 9140-4 Brownie and was just about as soft an action with a heavier blank. I'd never heard of it before, but was able to try casting one on the Clearwater river a couple years ago. We found that a WindCutter 8/9wt was a pretty good match for that rod if I remember correctly.
AHHHHHHHH. There she is. And the Windcutter 8/9 was a great match.
I knew it was an odd one and some guys who really knew their shit agreed it was odd, but had I known it was that rare I would have never have sold it.
The guy who sold it to me said he was going to a 4 piece 14' because it was easier to travel with.
It is quite apt to call the rod a telephone pole by today's standards.
I thought that 9140-3 was fast and required a line wt or 2 with a long belly? It is a cannon as I recall like most other rods you just need to get the correct line on it. That was back when Sage had the "euro" designation for it's faster rods, some of which were great rods. some of the "euro" rods were designed by Goran Anderson, so a Loop adapted system in the 9/10 range might be the answer.
Unless I missed it one important thing to remember is ALL spey casts consist of three parts.
First is the lift with your rod tip almost on the water (line at the 'dangle'). Raise your rod tip to a 45'ish degree angle above vertical. ONLY thing this is to accomplish is get as much of your line out of the water as possible prior to 'step two.'
The most common error (and you're dead from the get-go) is folks wouldn't just 'lift the rod tip,' they 'lift' and start pulling the rod around. This causes the line to drag through the water: A huge NO-NO.
After you do a proper 'lift' you form what ever cast you want, set the anchor, and form the 'D loop.' Part three is the forward SNAP of the rod tip with a sharp stop at '10 o'clock.'
But back to 'setting the anchor.' I don't care where you want to cast you must cast over the anchor (usually the connection of line/leader with a dry line or over the sink tip). You have NO choice, as with casting a single hander, the "180 degree rule" rules.