Who REALLY owns a public resource?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Randall Clark, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. Randall Clark Active Member

    Posts: 667
    Orygun
    Ratings: +181 / 0
    I'm not even sure why I'm posting this, and please don't take it as me bitching and moaning...but basically, here's the situation (if you can call it that): an old high school buddy was in town from way out of town. He wanted to fish. He wanted to catch some fish. We went to the Deschutes. It fished well. We caught a few trout, a few really nice fat slobs of trout.

    Now, the "situation": I wanted to get him into a steelhead and got up to a run where I thought he'd have probably the best shot all day (alas, no steelhead were hooked...). When we got there, I noticed someone about 200 yards upstream about two runs above where we wanted to fish. We sat there and hung out for a little bit getting rigged up and just chatting about your basic bullshit that a couple of dudes typically chat about. I pointed out the seam where he should start and pointed out the bucket where he should really be ready and he started making his way into the water. All of the sudden this guy who was flogging the water way above was now about 50' above this shallow riffle separating the two runs and providing many hand motions that a first glance one might have thought he had Tourette's or something.

    At this point, I called up to him, "hey, are you planning on fishing all of the way through here?",

    "no, just halfway through the run your in"

    I didn't really give it much thought at this point other than 'ok, cool, we'll just head upstream to other spot's...I mean, it's a big river with a shitload of decent water. No sense in getting bent out of shape about it. But as I was walking away after his "thanks a bunch guys for asking...", I had more of a WTF moment...apparently 500 yards of shoreline just isn't quite enough for some folks.

    that's really it. no question in there. just a silly rant.


    Oh, and yes, it was all glass all the time.
  2. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,473
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,615 / 0
    It looks like your question is about stream fishing etiquette and not about resource ownership. So what was it? 200 yd, 50 ft, or 500 yd. That's a significant difference in riverfront real estate. If the other guy can cover 550 ft (200 yd minus 50 ft) of river while you're getting rigged up, you're way too f'in slow and should allow the guy the courtesy of fishing on through, since if he's 50 ft upstream of you when your buddy is ready to enter the water, the other guy is already fishing water downstream of where you're standing. Had you been ready to fish when the guy was 200 yd upstream of you, and there was a riffle separating him and the water you intended for your buddy to fish, then go ahead and step in. But to not be ready until he was 50 ft from you, I think you snooze, you lose, and let him fish on through.

    BTW, I don't think it's a silly rant. People get worked up over lots of stuff, sometimes it's rational, and sometimes it's not. Understanding that difference and knowing how to constructively deal with the unavoidable conflict that is natural with too many rats in the maze (fishermen on one river) is one of the most important topics that forums like this can discuss.

    Sg
  3. inland Active Member

    Posts: 593
    .
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    TIMES 1 BILLION...
    speyfisher likes this.
  4. Randall Clark Active Member

    Posts: 667
    Orygun
    Ratings: +181 / 0
    no, we weren't going THAT slow. While I wasn't really watching how fast he was working, but in order to cover that much water in the amount of time it took, he would have had to really fly through that water. but there was also a pretty clear shallow riffle separating two distinct runs. Regardless, we moved on in search of other water anyway...I've always been the non-confrontational type when I'm out on the water anyway. That just makes my time on the water more enjoyable. I just thought the entire exchange was a little odd.

    the only reason I titled it the way I did was (at least in my mind) he seemed to act as if he really did own all of that water...

    the "500" should have had a sarcastic emoticon next to it & the 50' was above the shallow riffle (ankle deep) separating two of the runs & it was just one guy.
  5. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,903
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +643 / 0
    To me it sounds like there is two distinct runs...and this guy talked you right out of yours.
    But without being there to survey the scene it is hard to really say.
    There is always the option to jump in behind him and hook one! :)
    FinLuver, Ed Call, flybill and 4 others like this.
  6. Cruik Active Member

    Posts: 459
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +141 / 0
    If it's two distinct runs, then I don't see the problem at all. When you start fishing a spot, you don't have first dibs on all waters downstream. It sounds like he knew you guys were in a good spot and he was hoping to get down to it first. Sometimes, I'll methodically work through OK water downstream until I hit a run that I know is good. Some days just before I get to the good water, somebody will come out of nowhere and start fishing it (and of course hook a fish). It's frustrating and I hate myself for thinking I could work my way down to the good run and it would still be untouched, but the guy that got there first did nothing wrong. There's a lot of guys on the river that know proper etiquette, but sometimes approach it from a "nobody, but not nobody is going to **** with my one day off on the river."
  7. Evan Virnoche Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    funny thing is this same thing happend to me about month ago on the sky with a guide, he was easily 600-700 yards up stream and walked down to thomas and was insuating we low holed him.

    Also about 2-3 months ago at cable i got high holed and low holed and they were 20 feet up and downstream of me.

    With the response i was given from this forum, shame on you for even thinking of fishing that run, its your fault and you should have known better than to fish there. if you want solitude go to Alaska. I mean what do you expect being so close to the Los angeles, Seattle, Portland, Boise and surrounding metropolitan areas


    The above statement is not serious.
  8. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,473
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,615 / 0
    Bass_turds,

    Actually it's very simple. Here, let me explain it to you. If I walk in and begin fishing 50 ft downstream of you, that's plenty of room, and I wouldn't be low-holing you. However, if you walk in and start fishing 600 yds downstream of me in water that I was intending to fish, then you would be guilty of low-holing me. See? I said it is simple. (jk)

    In order for stream-side conflict like this to occur, a condition of self-centeredness must exist in at least one party. As crowded as our society is today, it doesn't take long to encounter that person.

    Sg
  9. Evan Virnoche Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    i think im going to start wearing a bluetooth and starting talking about some guy who is taking forever to swing the run below me.
    triploidjunkie likes this.
  10. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,903
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +643 / 0
    Me and my old fishin' buddy used to talk loudly about what "Crazy Larry" was gonna do this time when he showed up...or sometimes one of us would just act like Crazy Larry. Folks would generally move along shortly after...
    BASS_TURDS likes this.
  11. constructeur Active Member

    Posts: 1,515
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +410 / 0
    Get one of those sweet microphone things and rap mid run about it like Bobby Brown...just an idea.
    BASS_TURDS likes this.
  12. sopflyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 716
    Where the fish are located
    Ratings: +429 / 0
    i always scream and throw rocks at anyone downstream of me............anyone. the game warden thinks I'm nuts.
  13. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,966
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +725 / 0
    Same thing happened to me on the Deschutes a couple weeks ago. I popped out of the bushes and saw a guy about 500 yards upstream. I could have fished through the run I popped out on, but I figured what the heck... let me just find a different spot a little down the ways and let this guy have his "i'm the only one here" experience. I think seeing someone would have impacted his experience and there was PLENTY of room where I was fishing.

    I moved around the bend and hooked two fish in an hour. I never saw the other guy. I was really happy I moved.

    Just do what feels right. Different intuitions for different situations. Stay classy San Diego.
  14. David Dalan 69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E

    Posts: 1,904
    Walla Walla, WA
    Ratings: +737 / 0
    Some anglers have never gone beyond "toddler law." And that's OK...I don't sweat taking the high road.

    • If it's mine it's mine,
      if it's yours it's mine,
      if I like it is mine,
      if I can take it from you it is mine,
      if I am playing with something ALL of the pieces are mine,
      if I think it is mine it is,
      if I saw it first it's mine,
      if I had it then put it down it is still mine,
      if you had it then you put it down it is now mine,
      if it looks like the one I have at home it is mine,
      if it is broken it is yours.
  15. sourdoughsmitty Member

    Posts: 107
    cashmere,wa
    Ratings: +22 / 0
    My best way of handling seasonal guides in alaska who thought they did own the river was thus -- I always carried a shotgun for bears , Funny I never needed it for that :p but I would have it unslung and start talking to it especially about the nice new motor the guide had. Now for the most part where a private citizen was concerned the water was public ,however there were different rules concerning lodges in that they had a bit of territory and gentlemans agreement with each other lol, Now usually when i started talking to clara bell ( my shotgun) the guests would get nervous and force the guide to leave , This had humorous consequences one time when I went to the offending lodge for coffee and talk to the owner , as wehad known each other out on the bering sea fisheries , well here we were yakking and this guide who tried to push me out of a hole came in and freaked " he is going to kill us all !!" at this point my friend looked at me and said you been talking to your gun again ? the guide knew he was had and got a lecture on professionalism and the customers were very much relieved to hear it was an act on my part , hell you do it that way in the 48 probably start a firefight I do not reccomend this method osuth of beaver creek yukon territory :D have a good one and keep em holstered only room for one of us to be crazy smitty
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  16. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,055
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
    Ratings: +136 / 3
    Some people work through a run faster than others. Especially when a section of the run is known to be less productive. Myself, I fish a 13 ft spey rod with a forty one foot head and maybe four or five feet of leader. Do the math. When I'm ready to make my next cast, my fly is hanging over fifty feet below where I am standing, (the long belly guys will be twice that) and I'm looking to shoot another thirty plus feet into the cast. I absolutely abhor people who think it's OK to start fishing right at the bucket, when they see another guy already on the water working down towards them. Gear guys, I might cut a little slack. They play from a different rule book, and are unaware of ours. But a fellow fly fisher? NO WAY!
  17. Jim Darden Active Member

    Posts: 890
    Bellingham, Wa.
    Ratings: +215 / 0
    Lets see......500 yds, about 3 ft each step, that's 500 swings. Let's assume a 30 second swing, he won't get to you for 4 hours and 10 minutes. By then I'd be home having a martini! I don't think you "low holed" him. In that time you should have been 500 yds below him. If a guy gives me an hour before I get to where he started that's plenty of room for me, if he stands in one place, run over him!
  18. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,055
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
    Ratings: +136 / 3
    500 yards? The original post said 200 yards. Plus dicked around until the guy was 50 ft ± up river. 30 seconds/swing? Are you f***** kidding me? What are you talking about? Forty foot casts? Give me a break! It takes me longer than that to strip in & set up for the next cast. You do that to me. You are within shouting distance. You are damn well gonna hear about it!!!!
  19. Randall Clark Active Member

    Posts: 667
    Orygun
    Ratings: +181 / 0
    are you drunk? go back and read the post....slowly. Yes, by the time we were finished "dicking around", he was approx. 50' above a very shallow riffle that imo clearly separated two distinct runs...it's all good, we moved on and didn't see the guy again...in fact, we didn't run into many people at all. Just thought the way the entire thing went down was a little odd...

    yeah yeah, my fault for even posting...
  20. dustinchromers president: Slayers Club

    Posts: 34
    Barton, OR
    Ratings: +63 / 0
    The run across the river from my house is a guide favorite. After a few days of watching one of the local guides rope a handful my bro and I decided to get up early and zip over there in the canoe to see if we could swing up a couple ourselves. A short while after the magic hour we hear the tranquility cutting sound of a Yamaha jet pump heading our way. Said guide blazes right on past.
    Well, about an hour later the sled comes flying back upstream and parks at the top of the run. The guide jumps out and marches about 100 feet downstream to where we were fishing and says, "so whats the deal, are you trying to lowhole me?" Granted, we had a solid hunch that he would be coming down our way but what's the etiquette here? Is this lowholing???