Wild Steelhead on the menu at Kalaloch Lodge.

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by lostriver99, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. Jason Rolfe Wanderer

    Posts: 1,178
    the beach
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    email sent. Thanks for the heads up.

    J
  2. FlyinFish Active Member

    Posts: 126
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +77 / 0
  3. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,992
    seattle, wa
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    Jim, there's nothing worse than a proponent in apathy. If you don't want to help out - feel free to make yourself cozy on the sidelines.

    My opinion is that it's a winnable PR campaign. The public, and the northwest in particular, have never been so conservation minded. Simply having Steelhead listed on the Monterrey Bay endangered list would do wonders. We should target big wins like that and most of the "green, sustainable, local, koom by yah" restaurants will fall in line.

    But yeah - we might as well just forget it. Way more important things to discuss.... like how cold it is in Montana for instance.
  4. lostriver99 New Member

    Posts: 16
    Tacoma, WA
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    The picture I took is free to use as you wish. I would say the more people who see it the better. Thanks to those of you who have responded to this.
  5. FlyinFish Active Member

    Posts: 126
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +77 / 0
    Posted on their Facebook page. I'd recommend others comment their as well. You'll notice that quite a few people ask them questions on their FB page, and they do respond, so they will see it and so will others. Please go there and gently and kindly tell them how you feel.
  6. Bill Aubrey Active Member

    Posts: 939
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +165 / 0
    Just posted on their facebook page. Hopefully, they will fear a hit on the pocketbook and change their menu. And to thonk that just last week a local tribal leader was wailing about the loss of steelhead again. A different river to be sure, but the causes remain the same.
  7. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,135
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +791 / 1
    Do un-clipped steelhead taste better than clipped steelhead? There is a possibility here that the Kalaloch staff doesn't know the difference between a steelhead and a fence post...and one is legal to harvest and sell.
  8. Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

    Posts: 2,569
    Quesnel, BC
    Ratings: +323 / 0
    Jim,

    You don't want anyone using weirs.. You can catch every fish that way. In my mind, it is basically on par with Vilna for a run of salmon..
  9. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,355
    m-ville
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    Did you witness them fishing back then or is this speculation ?
  10. cabezon Sculpin Enterprises

    Posts: 1,721
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +243 / 0
    As I have stated before, the non-tribal interests in this situation are holding an incredibly weak hand legally and frankly in the court of public opinion. I do not think that the "stick" approach will be successful. Perhaps we should explore the "carrot" approach. Can non-tribal interests, whether they are fishermen or conservation groups, purchase the rights to "live" fish from a tribe? Essentially, we pay the tribal fishers to NOT kill steelhead which then go to gravel, make lots of babies that will make more steelhead. If a tribe were interested in this deal, how much would they want and how would the money be collected?

    Steve
    Dan Page, fredaevans and orangeradish like this.
  11. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,123
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +123 / 0
    Steve makes a very (several) good points. If there is 'no point of sale' the supply tends to cut off.

    Many years back at this point but the local Albertson's (Ashland, Or) had 'Fresh Steelhead' in the view box. Saw that and 'birthed a cow.' Had shopped there for several years so knew the Mgr. of the store and looked him up and pointed out that (in Oregon) the sale of 'Steelhead,' even giving a fish to your neighbor was 'illegal.'Potential of a huge fine/per fish.

    A 'You're Kidding????'

    Went out to the Jeep and pulled a copy of the Game Reg's and showed him. Fellow went pale in the face.

    'Can I borrow that?'

    'Yup.'

    Couple of days later there were no 'Steelhead' for sale in any Albertson's Stores in Oregon. And yes, I checked with several folks around the State (related the story) and 'they' were gone. No idea where the 'gone' went too .....

    Can Washington 'First Nations' fish/kill legally? The answer is 'yes,' so you need to cut off the supply chain at the consumer level.
    fae
  12. FlyinFish Active Member

    Posts: 126
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +77 / 0
    A rotting pile of fish looks worse than a beautifully cooked and seasoned fillet on a plate. It doesn't fix anything, but serving it in restaurants covers up the issue and casts a positive light on a very negative truth.
  13. Skeena88 Member

    Posts: 235
    Covington WA
    Ratings: +17 / 0
    OMJ, gill nets were used by native Americans to catch salmon long before Europeans showed up. The earliest recorded archeological finding is about 3,000 years before present. In those days the nets were made of cedar twine, not nylon, but the technique is the same. Similar technologies evolved in Japan and Scandanavia around the same time. Its an age old fishing technique. See http://www.library.spscc.ctc.edu/electronicreserve/anth280/5FosterandCroes.pdf
  14. cabezon Sculpin Enterprises

    Posts: 1,721
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +243 / 0
    An analogous situation to what I have proposed between tribal fishers and non-tribal parties occurred in Atlantic Canada regarding Atlantic salmon. With numbers declining, the provincial and federal government made the calculation that fru-fru flyfisher (yes, US) would inject $400+ or more (licenses, guides, hotels, meals, booze) per pound to catch (and then even release!!) Atlantic salmon. This was a much bigger financial input than the $4.00 per pound that the dead fish were worth on the market. The Canadian government bought out the commercial fishing licenses and the numbers of fish rebounded.
    Similarly, environmental groups have participated (and "won") auctions for the harvest of timber which they then did not harvest.

    Clearly, fishing is tied into the tribal vision of their place on the planet. Some level of ceremonial / subsistence fishing only makes sense. But if other fish are being caught for the general market, wouldn't fishers be more interested in earning a better return, potentially a MUCH better return? Our efforts to block the retail sale reminds of the game "whack a mole"; we stop one retail outlet and others appear.

    So, how much do you think would be a fair price to pay to a tribal fisher to have him/her NOT catch some of their half of the allocated harvest on a river like the Hoh or the Elwha or Quilliute system? Is it $100 / fish? $1000 / fish? Frankly, it may be cheaper in the wider view than our expensive systems of hatcheries and other augmentation systems (and the political wrangling about harvest).

    How would this money be raised? Could an individual or organization make a donation to 'buy" a fish? Would OP guides take on a charge to their fees to purchase fish in bulk to enhance the experience of their clients (and their own business)? Would a major tackle company (say Sage or Orvis) make a donation to the Hoh tribe to purchase 1000 wild fish that would otherwise end up on the plate?

    Of course, this is all pie-in-the-sky if we can't start a respectful dialog with individual tribes. After all, it is BAD business to start a business relationship by bad-mouthing your potential partners......

    Just some thoughts,

    Steve
  15. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,317
    bellingham wa
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    Love the idea Cabezon. How do you get a politician to push for a move in that direction?

    Go Sox,
    cds
  16. cabezon Sculpin Enterprises

    Posts: 1,721
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +243 / 0
    Hi CDS,
    I would approach Norm Dicks, recently retired congressman. He has always expressed an interest in fisheries and conservation issues. And he used his influence in Congress to assist the tribes on the OP with issues/needs that they had with the federal government. He would be a powerful intermediary.

    Steve
    Bill Aubrey and flybill like this.
  17. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,317
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +565 / 0
    What could the hatchery production on a river cost? Take the Hoh for example. The Queets would really be better off without nets.

    Personally, I think that my local river would be far better off if we had no netting and no hatchery, instead the tribe could have the cost of steelhead production. The hatchery returns are so poor anyway. Since it's OK to fish for steelhead for the purpose of killing wild fish till Jan31/ Feb. 15 it should be acceptble to C&R the same wild fish plus those we buy. Same risk.

    Norm Dicks eh?

    Go Sox,
    cds
  18. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,781
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,722 / 0
    Since I don't live in Washington State anymore I'm not going to comment on any wild fish anymore. Where I live these people don't even know how to make any good Fish and Chips. If you can get fresh fish here it is a miracle happening.
  19. Jim Kerr Active Member

    Posts: 708
    Forks Wa
    Ratings: +148 / 0
    Steve,
    I think your on a good track. Where we stand right now in Wa State a complete buy out would probably be very difficult. I think we will have to accept some level of river netting. But I think we should be able to ask for reasonable escapement goals,in season monitoring, and probably some sort of IFQ. And we should be looking for incentives for the tribes to take these steps. There are a lot of interesting ideas kicking around, I think making sure everyone knows that Native steelhead are not being harvested in a sustainable manner is a strong step.
  20. Patrick Gould Active Member

    Posts: 2,356
    Ellensburg, WA
    Ratings: +688 / 1
    In James Swan's Book The Northwest Coast he describes fishing back in the 1850s. It interesting how he quickly abandons his modern "patent" fishing gear and goes starts spearing them like the natives.