Wild Steelhead: Your intentions?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by faulke, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,399
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,357 / 9
    If legislation or rules changes further restricted recreational angling for steelhead, and on other changes were made, I think there would be little to no change in the rapid demise of steelhead. I think if there is fishing pressure from Commercial, Tribal and Recreational groups that change must be undertaken for all three of those groups.
  2. faulke bozone transplant

    Posts: 39
    State College, PA
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    That's more what I was trying to get at, Cruik. I think by looking at the situation simply from the perspective of a fisherman, we're really limiting our options on what angles or methods we can take to save wild steelhead. A conservationist may be more concerned with how extinction will affect their ecosystem and other species, rather than just not being able to fish for them. Fly fishing culture seems to encompass both fishing and conservation, which is what brought me to it. I'm glad to see there are a lot of people here being proactive with joining clubs and sending emails, I was curious of the reasons why people were so involved: for fishing or conservation? Although in the end, I'm sure it doesn't really matter, as long as we're all fighting for the same thing.
  3. JS Active Member

    Posts: 853
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    I dissagree. Every species of fauna and flora on the planet strives and struggles to survive, procreate, and thrive; is this not evidence of "caring"? The idea that we can exploit this planet's plant and animal life to meet our desires simply because they do not have the cognitive capacity for speech, emotion, and advanced civilization is barbaric, simplistic and short sighted. Im not jumping your shit, just saying that we need a paradigm shift in the way we deal with our natural resources, and it is going to take all of us.
  4. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,617
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,656 / 0
    This makes me think back about 35 years when I used to fish with gear. We would hike down into the canyon that Canyon Creek runs through and fish our asses off. They were logging in there at the time and you had to be on the lookout for Cables running through the area. The Steelhead used to run up in there is schools. I mean at least 30 in a pool They all ran about 5lbs. Most wariest fish you have ever seen. And the most closed mouth fish also. I guess if you could see them,they could see you and wouldn't bite on anything.

    I just wonder some times if it is still like that up in there. Even if I was still there I don't think I could make it back there anymore.
  5. golfman65 Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    I think the two go together...we care because we fish for them and with that learn a respect, appreciation and deep commitment to making sure of their continued survival....Many organizations address this and it's been already brought up..but stopping all fishing by the recreational fisherman will lead to their demise faster then not IMHO....Take away the sport and people will lose interest...typical...Having people on the water does a lot more then having none...They closed the Skagit and as I was told by a local up there..."And now the poaching will begin in earnest" I have no doubt of this at all..

    I'm always interested to read how one fishing group which doesn't target a certain species is quick to judge another that does..and their answer always seems to be "stop fishing for them" which in their minds is a simple solution but in reality is far from the truth....River watches etc. have been set up on a few systems up north and it's amazing how many low lifes can't wait to get us off the water so they can get back in and kill all they can...

    When you look at the habit and subsequent health of the fish in those systems...which has improved in some of our rivers...the fish are there when leaving...they don't return in the same numbers as before..why is that? Personally If we sank a few of the off shore foreign trollers who are killing everything in their wake..I wouldn't shed a tear...When you read about fish farms being shut down and the miraculous return of Salmon to rivers that have been almost wiped out over in England and Scotland...it's not hard to see through the b.s. what some of the causes are.....and we could go on and on about these as well....

    The reason we care is because we do....stop us from doing it and within ten years I would bet only a very few would give a damn....That's my theory on why governments do nothing for the most part to save these fish..If they let them die off who's going to stop them from building more dam's and wiping out more watersheds?

    Better to start fishing for them and giving a damn again and get your voice out there...the alternative is seeing how crowded the little streams can get and seeing pictures of guys with a couple thousand dollars of single hand gear holding up minnows proudly with beads sticking out their gums....:) Oh I can't wait for that day!!!
  6. Tom O'Riley Member

    Posts: 102
    Snohomish
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Your logic is wrong wild fish are no better than the hatchey dolt's if you want to save the Natives ie: the right fish in the right place then let's close all fishing for 10 year's now. If this were done then I believe youd be shocked at how fast they would recover. But as you know we are pathetic here in WA and can't make anyone listen we just pay them to ignore us even the bicyclists get there way but not us
  7. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,445
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,622 / 2
    1. I can't quite understand what you're even trying to say in the first part of this.

    2. two rivers that have closed for decades to steelhead fishing: Wenatchee and Cedar. Look in to how their steelhead numbers rebounded from nobody fishing.
  8. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 526
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +90 / 0
    Your logic is wrong wild fish are no better than the hatchey dolt's if you want to save the Natives ie: the right fish in the right place then let's close all fishing for 10 year's now. If this were done then I believe youd be shocked at how fast they would recover.

    Tom - you live in Snohomish they closed the Skykomish and all Snohomish tribs in 2001 - do some quick math for me and tell me how long we have not been able to fish in March and April (the native run). This system had less than 2,000 fish return last season according to the state.

    Please understand we as rec cnr fishermen have no impact on our fish runs here in PS - cnr mortality is very low - we need to look at Puget Sound - we are getting good out migration from our rivers some systems could be better and we all wish they were. We are losing our fish in the Sound somewhere/somehow - we should make the state study what is going on and make it known to the salmon/steelhead groups you belong to to hold the state accountable and get some answers - we need that data.

    The only people who care about steelhead are the men and women fishing for them - The fat guy riding his $1,0000 ten speed on the the Birk Gilman trail could give a fuck less. We need young people catching wild steelhead, we need middle aged shitty spey casters catching wild steelhead and we need the old dudes that fished in the good old days fishing and telling us how good it was and how much fun it was, we need the old farts telling us to set the standard higher and keep fighting and supporting good management.

    If you stop or have stopped fishing for wild fish - whatever thats your choice - but the Wenatchee was closed for years and our "new breed" of anglers have only fished that river in Sept/Oct three times - now tell me how many of the new fly anglers, people new to the state or younger anglers know shit about that river. They opened that system up because of hatchery fish returning not because the native run has come back. Please tell me another thing - all of us that never fished that system back in the day - how much passion do we have to protect or stand up for that system - because we never got to experience that fishery we have little to no passion for it - we watch and if it opens run over and fish it then blow town to wherever - that river has lost its voice and support - because anglers couldn't fish it!
    Now don't get me wrong we should never fish depleted runs or runs that are not making their excapement goals - I don't and would not support that - but my God if the Skagit, Sky, Stilly, Snoqualmie or any other PS river ever opens in march and april PLEASE go fish and get one - take good care of it - release it and I will bet all my Hardy's you will love that river system and will stand up for it forever - with just one fish hooked.

    DeLe
  9. ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    Posts: 3,209
    Eagle River, Alaska
    Ratings: +112 / 0
    I think the way we protect salmon and steelhead (and their amazing habitat) is by demonstrating their economic value, loose the economic value, and loose them
  10. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,787
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +316 / 1
    I agree that we need eyes on the water and people fishing for steel, that is how we fall in love with the fish and what makes me willing to sacrifice my time and money to save them. However I don't agree that hte public doesn't care. I've been on a few habitat projects and most of the people involved are not fishermen, they are john q public who realize that in order to save salmon we need to repair their habitat. They may not be aware of the species or run timing, but they are out there doing their part. You could stop all fishing for steelhead in PS for the next 6 years and I don't think it would make that big a difference, because their habitat is so degraded, IMHO. It's going to be a long slow turnaround ( maybe not in my life time), if it does happen. Those of us who are interested in the body count will move on, those of us who love the fish will work for their benefit.We need to educate ourselves and then the general public on the importance of wild native stocks and the need to protect them.

    If not you, who? If not now, when?
  11. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 526
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +90 / 0
    Chris - Good points.
    I think we have the habitat now on the Skagit and Sauk to have the numbers they had in the 80's - you could make a very good case that the habitat is a little better and things in a Steelheads freshwater habitat are better protected.
    We are getting hurt in PS - that's where the loss is. I am all for freshwater habitat improvement, but right now if all of our focus is there we may be missing the real problem.
    Im a big duck hunter and bird watchers don't do the habitat and work for the ducks that duck hunters do. While I will agree that some will keep the foucus on habitat protection - fisherman that use the resource will out number the john Q's and because of that use will have more skin in the game for the habitat and the fish.
  12. Tom O'Riley Member

    Posts: 102
    Snohomish
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    They still have a hatchery supported run and wern't closed long enough. the native will thive given an even chance.
  13. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,787
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +316 / 1
    Chris D, I'm not that familiar with the habitat in the Skagit system, the nooksack is my river and that is were my focus is. There has been a native brood stock program in the north fork nookie for 14 yrs, they get back good numbers of fish that they spawn and release but their progeny do not seem to survive, somewhere between spawn and smolt they don't make it. Every system is different with it's own set of problems. That is why we need to get a good count of every species in each river and develop a objectives and plans for each system. Given the present financial climate I realize that is more than likely a pipe dream, but I've always been a dreamer.
  14. Irafly Active Member

    Posts: 3,618
    Everett, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +1,051 / 1
    Not jumping your shit either, but please remember this the next time you mow your lawn.

    I still don't think the fish "care" about what I do for them and I do not beilieve for a second that that makes me barbaric, simplistic or short sighted I think it instead makes me practical.

    Ira..
  15. fishbadger Member

    Posts: 196
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    Nisqually?
  16. Irafly Active Member

    Posts: 3,618
    Everett, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +1,051 / 1
    Methow.

    Ira..
  17. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,445
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,622 / 2
    The Cedar has no hatchery steelhead. Their run has gone from endangered to functionally extinct since its closure.
  18. JS Active Member

    Posts: 853
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    You're missing the point, number one I wasn't calling you simplistic or barbaric. Number two, you have mistaken a metaphor for something literal. You are correct that the fish doesn't understand any concept of "caring" whether or not it survives, but it does deserve the respect that any species deserves, including my grass (which survives every cutting). That respect is simply that our species not cause the extinction of any other. We can agree to disagree, I am not an internet troll.
  19. snaff22 New Member

    Posts: 30
    Aberdeen, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    At the risk of being totally politically incorrect there is the most obvious elephant in the living room. I have fished for steelhead since I was 15 years old. I am now 61. The wild steelhead runs were healthy on the rivers that had no dams! ie: Elwha Wynochee (sp) The rest of the OP and Chehalis were fine and then came the Boltd Ruling! The sports harvests plummeted in one year. Then the blame began to be spead out to avoid being politically incorrect. Take the gillnets out of the rivers and the problem will be solved. But you will never hear a word from the WDFW blaming the Indian Gillnet. They know it is useless.
  20. snaff22 New Member

    Posts: 30
    Aberdeen, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Sorry how that reads! I meant rivers without dams. The Elwha and Wynochee native runs were decimated by the Dams. Sorry about that, guess it shows I am 61!