Wolves on the Westside?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by scottr, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. Hey Alex, been real. I think this thread is Kaput (for me)! But that single malt actually sounds good... maybe some day! Good luck on the salmon... I'll be on a tree stand hoping a whitetail walks within bow range in a day or so... hopefully the wolves over here on the East side will share!:p

    PS Tallflyguy: there is no "wolf crisis"... If the ID politicians wanted to identify a real crisis, they should be thinking about their pathetic education system

    ID demigogues should forget the wolves and take care of their people.
    jlar and Bill Aubrey like this.
  2. The only thing that's expendable today is more lead and dead wolves... those would be PEARs not apples.
  3. Now that I read back in a few posts, I've come to realize there's one guy on this thread who deserves respect... his name is Alex and if not for him I would not be having this discussion as he's been both the wolf and the elk in his lifetime... Thank you!

    I will bow out now because very little else seems of importance.
  4. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jan/29/endangered-habitats-washington-state
    dryflylarry likes this.
  5. I never said that I had any balls. :D Since you infer that you do, prove to us that you really have balls and are not all talk. I'll even let you off with Bonneville instead of Puget Sound. With a handle like Trustfunder, I guess you feel you have something to prove, especially on bigger water than Rock Creek.
  6. Two a day, Freestoneangler? How many in possession? I gotta check the regs!:D
  7. Thanks very much for your kind words, Trustfunder! I hope folks will consider this issue, as it's a very important one given the current public desire to sustain what they consider "wild". Ironically, they can't come up with enough $$ to keep the state parks afloat! This wolf situation comes from, I believe, an incomplete knowledge of how the wilderness really works, how it changes, and adapts. Yes, I know there are people who have graduate degrees in wildlife "whatever", and it's great that they've actually gone to school and read it in a book (My daughter has a degree in wildlife ecology), but in many cases they have little practical experience. That is only earned by countless hours afield, in ALL weather conditions, and all seasons. Boots on the ground, as it were!

    I feel truly blessed to have been able to spend as much time out there as I have; I've watched mule deer does play practical jokes on each other, then appear to laugh about it, and I've also watched a hen widgeon circle back over a duck blind in search of her mate, who'd just been taken by a hunter. What I've learned in over 60 years of being "out there" is that the wild is simply the most precious gift we enjoy; it's brutal, violent, and beautiful, all at once, and if you're a hunter, it's your duty and honor both, to put yourself in a position where you can work to improve what we have, and to defend and protect the wild, and the creatures within. This means that people like the "Defenders of Wildlife" need to get their collective ass away from their computers and protest signs, and hit the woods for more than a day or two at a time, walk quietly, and carry a big pair of binoculars! Learn to scent rain on the wind.

    As for me, grouse begins tomorrow, so you know where I'll be!
  8. well said alex. i'm sure we can all agree at least on this statement.
  9. I'm sure you also believe the NAZI Holocaust was just a bunch of media and propaganda as well, and not a real crisis. You seem to be in your own little false sense of reality. I'm sure its a great little place for you. When you are ready to come out of your world of fantasy, Tinkerbell, and pixie dust, and have something concrete and supported by things other than your opinion we can chat.
  10. I wonder why the 'Only good wolf is a dead wolf' folks on this thread seem so hostile and confrontational when someone questions the reasons behind their beliefs?

    Seems to me that instead of attacking those who may not share your point of view, you'd be eager to explain it in terms that'd convince them to share your convictions.

    Or not . . .

    Jason Rolfe and Bill Aubrey like this.
  11. "Now that I read back in a few posts, I've come to realize there's one guy on this thread who deserves respect... his name is Alex and if not for him I would not be having this discussion as he's been both the wolf and the elk in his lifetime... Thank you!"

    Well, if you wait long enough, some people will finally say something based on evidence and Trustfunder has finally done it. I disagree with Alex on some of his conclusions but I greatly appreciate his ability and willingness to explain his position. Good luck with the grouse, Alex.
    jlar and Nick Clayton like this.
  12. WE were warned by canadian biologists that the wolves would cause this problem. All these great professional mammologists, biologists friends, etc etc, Richard O speaks of, cooked the books and in the name of science these non-native wolves were introduced.

    The Canadian biologists who have studied wolves for decades warned us that years of careful scientific study of wolves have shown that wolves hunt local ungulate populations to extinction. Even those experts who are solidly pro-wolf warned of these risky policies. Here is what one top expert predicted when wolf reintroductions were being proposed:

    “I predict that you are going to have major impacts from wolves in this state…I predict major elk decline…wolves repeatedly depress moose, caribou and elk populations while studying them throughout Canada…I’ve watched herd after herd [of caribou] go EXTINCT across Canada…The problem, wolves have no know predators to keep them in balance with the ecosystem.”
    —— Tom Bergerud, 1994
    Top British Columbia wolf expert
  13. TFG,
    Just trying to understand something here and not trying to argue the points you made but did Tom Bergerud explain how the wolves that were here before not cause extinction of caribou herds in the past? Or perhaps they did?

    I don't know enough about this issue to form an opinion one way or the other but I will say this thread has been quite a read.
  14. He was referring to the CAnadian grey wolf, which has been shown, is a different sub-species than the timberwolf or other native wolves, native to this area.
  15. That doesn't explain why they now can eliminate entire caribou herds and not do so in the past or is it these wolves were not present in the same areas the caribor herds were in? Again, I am just trying to understand.
  16. This seems to be a "grey" area. There is some evidence coming forth that native Indians controlled the wolf population as well, doing everything they could to kill off packs that came into their hunting area. Just spend some time up north in Alaska and you will see how the natives hate and treat the wolf. How or why the larger Canadian grey wolf stayed up north in canada and not down here is unknown.
  17. Its also important to understand the term "herd". Think of it as a small population of animals in a specific area. "the lolo" herd etc. Wolves wipe out one herd, and then move on to the next. He is not referring to the entire population of caribou as a species etc.
  18. Damn. Now Alex made me crave grouse&dumplings. Time to pull out the pea shooter.
  19. Thank TFG, I am starting to understand. Interesting point about native indians. Makes sense they would do what they could to eliminate competition.
    Ed Call likes this.
  20. Yep, I'm sure that is the one and only reason, just like you and thousands of others are trying to point out that is the only reason why wolves are being killed now in ID, recently in WA, and soon MT, WY etc. Never mind the mountain of evidence and research showing otherwise cuz it's not how "you" want it to be.

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