Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by docstash, Sep 13, 2013.
Just my two cents, not Red's. You guys should quit pissing up the rope.
Anglers like yourself catch way more fish than the guides do with the majority of their anglers on any day. You also fight and release your fish easier than most clients that are on a guided trip do. Yes we have a few clients that can catch fish like Gabe does, but that is the vast minority. We have some guests that can play and restore fish in an instant again the vast minority. I only hoped by posting this that many would take care of the fish by not fishing in the heat of the day. I did post at the request of Steve.
You will not see me on the river fishing because I would rather not take a chance. Not the Yakima or not the Naches.
One thing to consider with the temps is the gear you use. Keep the ultra lights at home. Beef up the rod to get the fish in. Don't head out to warm water conditions for cold water fish with a light action rod where you can't get them in fast. Get them to net and released. If the fish is near rolling over on it's back, then you played it too long and may want to rethink your gear for that trip being a tad light.
Back onto the thread over the pissing back and forth. I heard there is rain a coming. Warm, but rain. You guys getting any up in E'burg? Chance to freshen river and maintain or raise flow a bit?
Still sunny right now Jerry, lows at night dropping to the upper 40's and highs to the upper 70's will help a bunch.
So if the Government or Businesses say to stop, you will but not until then?
The major guides stated they DID cancel/reschedule trips. WDFW won't make a change in regulations quickly or easily. But then again, do you -- or any responsible angler -- really need the government to tell you when to do the right thing? Is that really your position on fishing ethics -- the government sets the standard?
You say you the fish you released were energetic and survived, but how do you know? A fish released into 70-degree water will try to quickly dive back into cooler, deep or moving water. But will they survive? The science says probably not.
You speak in definitive terms that you have killed zero fish. Hard to believe such a claim from any accomplished angler with 30 years experience. You can lash out at me next and recite your no fish killed in 30 years mantra and further demonstrate your own defensive position that many will not accept.
The only way you have killed no fish in that time is if you've not caught any in that time. Just because you watched them swim away, does not mean you applied no stress. Some of those stressful encounters likely resulted in a fish fatality or few. Imagine it is possible, or continue to deny what all the statistics, studies and experience anglers and guides have shown to reflect reality.
Most guides catch fewer fish than you. Not because you are as talented as you think, but because they're holding the oar handles while their clients hold the rod handle. Some have said what they are doing to reduce fish stress and mortality, rescheduling, relocating and canceling. You've said what you are doing...fishing until WDFW says stop or all the guides stop.
Leadership leads...followership follows. You've made your choice readily apparent. You probably use a 2-3wt and 7x routinely too, don't you?
Dude, are you new? I've been a moderator the longest and am the biggest smart ass on here and real life. LOL
Gabe in 30+ years fishing you have likely killed fish, its a fact of life. Believe it or don't, you have made it clear that you are going to do whatever you feel no matter what the data shows so why continue to post on this thread? Are you that hung up on showing everyone how right you are?
Ok I believe you.......in the 30 or so years you have been at it no fish has ever died from your actions. Feel better now?
BTW, I'll openly admit I've probably killed the most fish of most on the board.
WHAT are you guys thinking? REALLY?? Punturing its flesh with a hook, dragging the fish into a net or on the beach and then releasing it.
If you dont plan on eating the fish, leave them alone to live in peace, harassing them just for your own amusement/paychecks should be illegal.
The writing above was done as a joke...
Splitting hairs should be left to barbers.
This isn't really splitting hairs. I used to fish Lenice quite a bit during the summer. I had stillwaters pretty well dialed in and did very well. But, I did notice every now and then a fish would dive to bottom and get hung up in the grass. Knowing full well that I was killing a fish every now and then was ok with me because I was sure that most were very healthy after release. My fisheries changed and I didn't spend much time lake fishing after the decade or so when I fished that area a lot.
But, I started hearing more and more about how water temps affect a fishes ability to recover and now know that I killed way more fish than I had thought. Can I live with myself for doing that? Sure. But, I also learned along the way that what I was doing was wrong in my own eyes. Just because I saw the fish swim away, seemingly very strong, doesn't mean it was still alive an hour later. It only meant that it swam away strong at that time.
We all evolve how we approach our fisheries and adjust to information that we receive. It seems the troll in this thread knows what he knows from 30 years ago. Hell, I knew what 2+2 equaled when I was 5..... I'd have missed out on a lot of things if I had stopped learning then.
My post stands solidly on a foundation backed by science, surveys and logic.
You think that was bad? Smart ass? You thought I was better than that? Not sure what you are referring to there, but I'm better at realizing that I'm more realistic than you are and I'm more willing to accept the fact, in this blood sport of catch and release, that I put pressure on and have caused the death of fish. Come out of your golden tower and off you bejeweled throne, the real world awaits your arrival. We won't bow to your impossible claims of no dead fish in thirty years, and we won't soften the blow that we don't buy your line of bullshit for a moment.
Temps rise, fish rise. Fish eat flies, fish dies. Believe it. If you fish when temps are high and oxygen is low, you are part of the problem.
Well said Ed, we all have to use some common sense no one can claim zero kill C & R .
The guy is just trolling the web. Nothing more, nothing less.
We opted to skip the fishing this weekend and instead, drove over to Moses Lake to see the litter of yellow labs from which will be bringing home a female pup in 3 weeks... my wife wants them all . We stopped at the S. Cle Elum bridge and walked downstream along the levee... much lower than I thought. Now I'm wondering if I should fish that section next week or head elsewhere?
Oh... and gabe0430...if you think Ed Call is a smart ass now, you should have known him when he was Mumbles
For those that maybe interested in some information on this topic I refer them to
"Effects of Catch-and-Release Angling on salmonids at Elevated Temperatures"
From North American Journal of Fisheries Management 30: 898-907, 2010
By Boyd, Guy, Horton and Leathe
Work was done in Montana and fish were caught by angling and held in-river in live cages for 72 hours at several different temperatures. The short version - for rainbows no mortality seen for fish who were caught (late afternoon/evenings) at temperatures below 20 degrees C (63 F). However at temperatures above 23 degrees C (68 F) on the Gallatin river the mortality was 16% and on the Smith it was 9%.
In other words it would be reasonable to expect that at the kinds of temperature being discussed on this thread it would be reasonable to expect at least a 10% mortality of those fish being caught and released. I will leave that to each of you to decide whether that is significant and whether that sort of increased mortality is enough modify your behavior.