Yarnies - Love or Hate?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by flyfishmt, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Derek Day

    Derek Day Rockyday

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    The difference is that no matter how perfectly one presents a swung fly, you are still have at best around a 50% chance that a fish will move (I made up the 50% figure--but it illustrates the point). No matter how well you do it, or how deep you get your fly, a majority of the steelhead will not chase your fly. When you're nymphing, if you do it perfectly, your odds go through the roof +/-100%. The swinging fisherman is still significantly limited by the method--no matter the technology.

    It's easier to cast flies on a longer rod, but it is no easier to catch that fish you can now reach on that longer cast. Casting further isn't changing the rules. Same odds, more rolls of the dice. I think that when you are presenting flies vertically, dead drifted, you're changing the rules, stacking the odds.

    And again, it's not the nymphing that makes someone greedy.
     
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  2. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    If you cant reach that fish laying in that seam 95' away with a single hand rod then using a spey rod most certainly makes it easier to catch that fish.

    If its all about just making it as hard as possible then why not swing 8' glass all the time? Why not swing size 22 midges all day? Why not cut the hook point off all of your flies and try to coax a steelhead into biting your fly and enjoy the process so much that it just chooses to cling to your hookless fly long enough to allow you to land it?

    There are a million ways to make the act of catching a steelhead more difficult. I still cant understand why your choice of things to make it easier is sporting when someone elses is greedy.
     
  3. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member

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    How is it not easier to catch fish if you're presenting your fly to more fish? for example, instead of presenting your fly to one fish, that 100' casts gets your fly in front of 2 or 3 fish...that's called increasing the odds.

    The only time you're really stacking the odds significantly is if you're pounding the water over and over until you piss off some fish enough to take the fly...I don't think that's what anyone here is talking about when they're talking about nymphing, at least I'm not...If I don't get a takedown within a couple of drifts through a particular spot, I'm moving...same way if I'm swinging through a run. A cast or two, then move down. Hell, I'm even running my setup pretty shallow (3/4-1/2 the depth of the water) and have seen fish move up from the bottom to inhale my nymph....I can't really see how anyone can say that THAT fish didn't move to the fly.

    I've seen both nymphers and swingers camp out in certain juicy runs...flogging the water for hours (unless they just happened to JUST start fishing the run right before I came back by)...happens more than you think...so yeah, greed is greed.
     
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  4. underachiever

    underachiever !

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    Son of a B! Gotta grab some more popcorn.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. psycho

    psycho Active Member

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    When fishing steelhead I think that one should only use a dry line, dry fly and an upstream cast.:D If a person has to stoop to using a nymph it should be only one cast, You should never get one of those fish mad enough to slash viscously at your nymph.:D A happy and contented steelhead should be your objective.:D:D
     
  6. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    The poor Yarnie is starting to get a complex.
     
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  7. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    I hope the yarnie doesn't get butthurt ;)
     
  8. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    Wait... Randall is a metal head? Well no wonder I agree with his outlooks so often
     
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  9. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    This is why I stick with wing bobbers!!!!!
     
  10. Peyton00

    Peyton00 Active Member

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    It sounds like ALOT of guys on this website catch many steelhead.... soooo many it doesn't seem fare to others.
    Soooo many fish being caught with such simple methods that some are being called GREEDY.
    I am now keeping all steelhead i land.... i thought we had a shortage going on... silly me.


    I only catch multiple steelhead when bait fishing or using hardware.:D
     
  11. Derek Day

    Derek Day Rockyday

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    I guess you could call it easier, but it is still no more likely. Even if I can get my fly out there and do everything right, I'm still operating with the same handicap. It is still very, if not more, challenging--and at the end of the day the fish still has to chase a moving fly. Your odds are still the same--you are just rolling the dice more often.

    I think it's limiting yourself a reasonable chance of success. It becomes less reasonable (and sporting) as your chance of success increases towards 100%. When I start hooking a lot of fish, I switch it up, try something more difficult. Maybe I just fish skaters, pull out the bamboo single hander, or clip the point off my hook. If there was a technological advance that made swinging flies as inherently effective as nymphing, fishing like that would no longer be more sportsmanlike.

    It's the attitude that 'I must catch every steelhead I encounter' at issue not necessarily the nymphing. Nymphing is a tool for greedy fishermen. But, not all nymphers are greedy (some are just aren't very good at steelhead fishing, some are impatient, some are new trout fishing converts, some (like Randall) do it just because they enjoy it). If you've gotten really good at nymphing, and haven't introduced an artificial handicap, you're probably greedy (and not very sportsmanlike). Can nymphing be sporting? Yes, depending on the handicap. Maybe you fish your nymphs further off the bottom, don't use shot, so on and so forth.

    I don't think that anyone would argue that perusing an elk modern firearms equally sporting as hunting with traditional archery gear. Or that free soloing isn't more badass/sporting than top roping. Nymphing steelhead is less sporting than swinging giving the handicap you incur by swinging (no matter how far you cast, how big your fly, or how deep you get it).

    Your odds of catching that one fish are still 50/50, if you're lucky. You are going to catch more fish if you cover more water. I don't see any difference between casting further, wading further, moving faster, walking further or fishing more hours. Does steelhead fishing 65 days a year make it easier? You haven't changed the likelihood that a steelhead will eat a swung fly. You show it to more fish, but the odds are still 50/50 that any given fish will move.
     
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  12. underachiever

    underachiever !

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  13. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member

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    Derek, we're talking about two different things. You're talking about odds of each individual fish. I'm talking about odds of catching x-number of fish based on number of fish you show your fly to in a particular day. If you get your fly in front of say, 10 fish in a day (because of your longer casting and covering more water in each run) and catch your 50% rate, you're still catching 5 fish vs. the guy who, because of limited range, is showing his fly to 5 fish and catches them all based on your percentage, he still catches 5 fish. Now, who is showing more restraint? the guy who caught 5 fish? or the guy who caught 5 fish?. That's my dig with this whole "restraint" word that's tossed around frequently as a reason why one method is better than the other on the fish.
     
  14. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    Derek's arguments remind me of Fezzik in the Princess Bride. Instead of hiding behind the rock and crushing the Dread Pirate Robert with the rock as he attempted to slip by, he instead only smashed the rock on a boulder and invited DPR to fight mono e mono in a civilized/sportsman like way. Fezzik lost and DPR ended up with the girl. Some people like to win and get the girl some people like to play the laughable side kick. Derek, you do at least have some great quotable lines. "...you are probably greedy, (and not very sportsmanlike)." Yep, just laughable. Next time I'm out fishing with a buddy and he figures something out that I don't and then doesn't immediately change his tactics to catch less fish, I plan to quote you. This is going to be awesome.

    Have fun walking to the river Derek because as we all know a car is surely an unfair advantage, a crutch, an unsportsmanlike move no doubt.

    Oh and thanks for keeping the pot stirred, it was starting to stagnate a bit.
     
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  15. Tacoma Red

    Tacoma Red Active Member

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    This is getting to be one Yarn of a Thread...!!!!
     
  16. Brady Burmeister

    Brady Burmeister Active Member

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    Fezzik didn't want the girl. And how boring the movie would have been if DPR was crushed by the boulder 30 minutes into the movie. Your point must be nymphing = boring.

    Prince Humperdink was definitely a nympher.
     
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  17. Rob Allen

    Rob Allen Active Member

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  18. underachiever

    underachiever !

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    On the topic of analogies that bear no relation to reality.

    It could be that the swing fisherman is out buying roses and when he gets home there's a nympher taking his girl to pound town.
     
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  19. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

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    This is a baseless battle drum on by a bunch of ignoramus blow hards. (Except you Salmo, I wear a Salmo G t shirt to bed at night).
     
  20. CLO

    CLO Bonk Hatcheries

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    I'm too cool for yarn and not cool enough to buy an expensive spey rod. I quit.
     

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