you can keep 1 wild steelhead

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by luv2fly2, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. luv2fly2

    luv2fly2 Active Member

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    does anyone know why we are allowed to keep 1 wild steelhead per year? it is on the punch card. mike w
     
  2. Nooksack Mac

    Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    Why was Abraham Lincoln, who detested slavery, willing to allow slavery to continue in the Southern states where it existed? Because political compromise, even where it's most repugnant, is supposedly better than bloody revolt.
     
  3. Citori

    Citori Piscatorial Engineer

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    I am reminded of the parable of the frog and scorpion. The scorpion came to the frog and asked the frog if he would ferry him across the river by carrying him on his back. The frog replied, "You will sting me, and I will die, so no, I won't carry you." The scorpion replied, "I won't sting you because if I do and you die, I will drown." So, the frog let the scorpion get on his back, and started to swim across the river. Halfway across, the scorpion stung the frog. As the frog was dying, he asked the scorpion why he had killed them both. The scorpion replied, "Because it is my nature."

    We can do ourselves harm, or we can rise above that, it is our choice.
     
  4. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    The one-steelhead kill was probably kept in the regulations to salve the tribes and some (not all) of the guides on the coast, just as it was the first time. It is a travisty. Many of you recall the uproar by the tribes, a contigent of guides and mayor (I have foregotten her name which is no longer listed in any Forks information) of Forks during the push to stop the kill on all wild steelhead? Also, do you remember how the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission folded when the one-steelhead kill was going to be retained? The WDFW should be absolutely ashamed for supporting this sort of skullduggery. They know better.
    In my opinion it will require another frontal assault on the issue by sporstmen, just like it did when the limit was first reduced from 30 wild steelhead per year if it is ever going to be changed.
    Regardless of what "reason" is floated by WDFW to justify such boneheaded logic it is quite simply just another poke in the eye to show us that the bureaucrats in Olympia can do what they damned well please.
    Les Johnson
     
  5. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

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    Not only did they recind the moratorium on wild steelhead harvest and allow retention of one wild fish per day, but they then went on a campaign out here on the Olympic Peninsula and made sure that anyone fishing here knew that they could do it, should do it! When they had the meeting in Bremerton to reopen the harvest issue one of WDFW's examples of a sustainable MSY model system was the Hoh River. It was already in trouble, now look at it today. WDFW is an international embarrassment.
     
  6. LD

    LD Active Member

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    When I attended the TU meeting about the Spokane River this subject came up (keeping fish). One of the WDFW biologists said that people will care about he fishery if they can actually catch and keep some fish. Also said it was important for kids to be able to catch/keep fish otherwise they don't get interested in the sport and then you loose a generation. I thought it was an interesting perspective.
     
  7. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    I know MANY people new to fishing and fly fishing or who are very interested in it and they have ZERO desire to kill a thing.

    In fact I help teach several dozen every summer.
     
  8. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    :beathead::beathead:

    Was this discussion specificly about native steelhead? My kids enjoy a mix of fishing where we do both C&R and C&K. There are plenty of opportunities for both without justifying killing a wild steelhead.

    Stocker trout, hatchery steelhead and salmon, panfish, etc etc. It is actually a great teaching lesson for them when you kill on one trip and not on the other. They always want to know why - and it opens the door to the discussion about why C&R is important for some fish and not so much for others.
     
  9. Freestone

    Freestone Not to be confused with freestoneangler

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    Les, Nedra Reed was her name. :beathead::beathead:
     
  10. LD

    LD Active Member

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    No this was not avout wild steelhead. It was an informational meeting on the Spokane River and redband trout. But the subject about C&R came up. That was the explaination that was given. Might seem to be the same logic they used with steelhead, not sure since subject was not brought up. This was not my opnion and right or wrong was what was given. Just thought it might be an interesting perspective from someone who works for WDFW.
     
  11. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    Chadk has it right. You want to teach your kids all of the ways of sportfishing. WDFW people who are in the "outreach program" always promote a catch and kill policy in one shape or another. It is part of their maxium sustained yield mantra that they probably learned at the U of W college of fisheries. As was stated above, do not buy into it. My kids had a great time growing up keeping stringers of crappie that I'd fillet and deep fry for them and stocker trout that we'd smoke.
    Hey Freestone! Nedra Reed is the one. She is no longer on any Forks website mastheads. I wonder if she was booted from office. I haven't heard.

    Cheers,
    Les Johnson
     
  12. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Talking about Forks is just another way to hijack this thread. Since when did Forks become the other Mega capital of the world. BOy are there prices out of this world. Bacon and eggs for Breakfast cost me $11. 95 with lousy service. There one big new store in town has a clothing line that is just Carrhart. Man is that shit expensive. Gas was $3.59.9 and that was at the cheap station. All others are into the $3.65 range. And the people are unfriendly.

    Forks. What can one say.
     
  13. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    Old Man,
    In all due respect I don't feel that this thread was hijacked by including Forks in the topic of the one wild steelhead kill allowance. Forks Mayor Nedra Reed (at the time), the tribes and some of the guides combined forces to be the lynchpin along with WDFW harvest managers to keep that one wild steelhead on the annual kill list. Personally, I wouldn't complain about paying $12 for breakfast or $3.65 for gasoline if I could see any evidence of conservation coming from the area. As for Carrhart clothing, there isn't much call for Brooks Brothers suits or Ralph Lauren khackis along the OP coast. My wife and I have, in fact made annual Thanksgiving trips to Forks for some early steelhead fishing. On these junkets we always buy Christmas gifts from the local shops. These are nice people who have to make a living and getting footstuffs, or gasoline to Forks is more expensive than supplying gas stations along the I-5 corridor.
    I'm concerned about the attitude toward catching wild steelhead until they are practically extinct, particularly the blantantly reckless overfishing on the Hoh River which will be closed early on April 3 by WDFW in a weak and belated effort to "protect wild steelhead."
    Cheers,
    Les
     
  14. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Les, here in Montana you can get a very good breakfast for $6.99. The same as the one I had in Forks. I'm just suprised at the price of that clothing. T-shirts, plain, $25.95. Hell I can get a FTL t-shirt for under $8.00 in Montana at Wally World or the big K. Plus when I came home the price of Regular here in the greater Butte area was only $3.19.9.

    I don't know how they make ends meet while living there.

    Jim
     
  15. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    Old Man,
    A lot of people out in Forks country don't make much of a living. Commercial fishing and logging -- or guiding -- are not nearly the thriving operations that they once were. It is an economy driven almost entirely by the extraction of natural resources. With those resources diminishing, making a living is a lot tougher than in the Puget Sound region for instance. As I said, the I-5 and I-90 delivery systems have a relatively easy time getting product to suppliers. Along the remote Olympic Peninsula coast, freight costs are high. It is the nature of the beast.
    I don't have all of the answers by any means. I am just stating the facts. I hope prices stay under control in Montana. We spend a bit of time there every year.
    Cheers,
    Les
     
  16. hookedonthefly

    hookedonthefly Active Member

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    I loved Forks and I loved the breakfast...jeez, you get a pound of bacon. I'll happily pay the $12 when I get back to Forks.

    My buddy and I spent five days over there. Thought the people were great.

    The worst things was that I saw one of the guides from Anglers Guide Service aka Alaskan Kingfishers come off the river with, what appeared to be, three wild steelhead and two hatchery. I have no problem with them keeping the brats but the wild harvest made me really angry. What a JackA$$.:mad:

    Now we come to the Hoh closure.

    Man, things have got to change on all fronts.
     
  17. Copper Jon

    Copper Jon What a Jim!

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    Yeah, now look at it - closing early to "protect wild fish." Good thing they allowed wild fish harvest until now, that's some smart thinking.:mad:The Hoh River as an example of sustainable anything is a joke to me, the pressure there is through the roof. Actually, having the word "sustainable" in MSY is a joke. Many fisheries biologists have known for awhile now that MSY doesn't work in many situations but, like Nooksack Mac mentioned, politics often trump science. Here's an interesting quick article about the history of why MSY was beloved in the 40's and 50's if anyone is interested:
    http://www-csgc.ucsd.edu/NEWSROOM/NEWSRELEASES/Carmel_Finley.html

    And Les, while MSY is still taught in fisheries schools, it is now generally considered outdated and taught as a preamble to more modern concepts in population dynamics. And I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it almost appears that you're knocking the UW School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences. Just in case anyone is thinking that school is teaching MSY as the greatest management tool out there, I assure you it is not. SAFS at UW is unbelievably well-respected and probably the best fisheries school in the country, perhaps the world (and I never went there).
     
  18. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    Jon,
    I hadn't heard that MSY is no longer taught as part of the program at UW School of Fisheries. That is enlightening and certainly welcome. I thank you for getting me up to speed. I've been meaning to check out the program requirements for some time and had best get to it. From my experience though I am convinced that WDFW leans heavily to the commercial fishery with chinook being the primary salmon. It also holds true for the sport fishery. Tony Floor who was with WDFW for years as the sportfishing manager is now a lobbiest for the Northwest Marine Manufacturing group, builders of boats, downriggers and such sport gear.
    I guess that we'll just have to wait for the WDFW old-timers to retire to get completely clear of the MSY mentality.
    I grew up in Aberdeen and developed an early love for the Olympic Peninsula, Forks and the people who lived there. I fished way back with Clarence Fuhs (who owned Olympic Sports) and Windy Miller who could talk the ear off of a brass monkey. Both men taught me a lot and yes, we killed steelhead back then in the 1940s through early 1960s. Embracing MSY it just seemed lilke there were so many steelhead with the hookups per day we enjoyed. This was with gear, lures and single hooks. No bait. The OP wild stocks were in decline a way back then but we didn't really know it. The annual limit for steelhead was 24 per year, wild or hatchery with a lot fewer anglers after them. And they all had to be punched.
    Again, thanks for setting me straight. Never hesitate in this regard. I don't ever mind being challenged on an intellectual or educational basis.
    Les
     
  19. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Old Man, with all due respect, go back to your hole if you don't like it there. I can get the Sol Duc scramble (yum) at the Koffee Shop for less than $9, a t-shirt in town for as little as $10, a loaner 8 wt. rod at the tackle shop after breaking my own for a handshake, and gas in Seattle is $3.59/gallon.

    It is what it is. A community of hard working people trying to get by on what they can. Trying to take advantage of others? Not something I've seen.

    While I disagree with much of the politics out there I have more in common with those folks than I do with people living in Medina.
     
  20. Stonefish

    Stonefish Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater

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    Jim,
    Did you ever consider the location of Forks before you bitched about the price of everything? Last time I looked it isn't right off the I-5 corridor.
    I happen to know the gentleman that owns the Thriftway, Ace and Forks Outfitters. He has invested a lot of time, energy and money to bring those facilities to the community. He took the chances and has every right to earn a good ROI.
    I know if I lived there I'd be happy those shopping opportunities were available to me. Having shopped there many times, many items are actually priced lower then what you'd pay in Seattle.
    As far as the people being unfriendly. What can I say, perhaps a response to the grumpy old man's attitude?
     

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