You can't have it both ways!

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Bob Triggs, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    In defense of Orvis, at least the one here in Bellevue, they do a damn good job of being in tune to the local fisheries and steering people in the right direction.
     
  2. Steffan Brown

    Steffan Brown ...

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    I couldn't agree more...
     
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  3. Tom O'Riley

    Tom O'Riley Member

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    As a small business owner we face the same problems with buyers ordering online after we provide demo equipment and do all the heavy lifting, and they always say it cost less. It only cost less cause they don't do the work. I will always support my shops. Just yesterday I stopped by Creekside and was given a great contact for Hardy as I am looking for a older reel and thats why I buy from them when I have a need.

    Please support the local shops
     
  4. Brian Miller

    Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

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    Maybe this has nothing to do with the dynamics of the fly fishing business but who comparison shops for purchases besides fly fishing gear?

    If I'm shopping for a car, I'm going to go to several dealerships probably with a short list of mfgs and models in mind, test drive them all, whittle down my choices, and buy where I feel I am getting the best value for what I can afford. Should I feel guilty if I test drive a car but buy the same model at another store that gives me a better price or financing?

    I don't have have the cash to buy often, I am not a trader - I keep what I buy, and I make good buying decisions, but I appreciate high end guitars. Many instrument makers have MRPAs too. Now I've found that identical models side by side will sound different and with the exception of two custom built instruments, I simply wont buy sight unseen or unplayed. I won't compromise on sound but (if I did) should I feel bad about trying out a guitar at one shop but buying the same model at another because of a better price or at MRPA with a good case included that would cost $150 or more? (I don't finance instruments or fly fishing gear)

    All that said, I won't go to a fly shop, test cast rods and buy the same rod on line. However I am very willing to buy online after doing my own online research. I would like and actually expect to see package deals of some sort that other small brick and mortar shops offer in their online catalogs. Maybe that means free personalized instruction or something significant but not material. And aggressive online sales may be a tactic that shops need to adopt to survive with the times.

    My son is a beginner who borrows my unused early 90s gear but wants to buy his first 5-weight outfit. He was thinking of mail order but I've got him talked into visiting one or two local shops where he can test cast, get some advice, buy his gear, and take some classes. We will be taking some time to shop this Saturday afternoon after we do a performance.
     
  5. NewTyer1

    NewTyer1 Banned or Parked

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    I find that the Orvis shop we have here, they tend to be snooty. Perhaps because they cater to the higher class people in Charlottesville who don't have to ask how much something is but, I have found them to be not very helpful or know anything about the local waters.

    I have also found that if you find a rod you like online and they carry it at the local store, they will do thier best to get the price down or match it if they can. Most local shops might have a bit larger overhead but, I don't consider thier prices to be so much higher than most online sites.
     
  6. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    With so many retail price mandated by tackle manufacturers, I don't see a lot of price differences between on-line, big box, or local shops for a lot of the things I want. I realize most of my savings by shopping sales on name brand goods, buying last year's name brand goods that are closed out or liquidated to places like STP ($60 Simms fishing shirt for $26, but it's so "last year."), buying used gear, and lastly by buying cheaper off-shore manufactured "house label" rods for certain uses. I used to save money buying rod blanks and components and rolling my own, but now off-shore finished rods are an even cheaper alternative in many cases. A main reason I find for shopping on line is the limited inventory of a shop doesn' t always have what I want, even Cabela's big box often doesn't have what I want. I appreciate and need them all.

    Sg
     
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  7. Golden Trout

    Golden Trout Active Member

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    First let me say that a fly shop exists in Omak, WA at a Big Red outlet. The shop is very well equipped and the prices are less than what I would pay to order and have them shipped. Bought a "Loon" product that some shops in MT don't carry. I am impressed. A young gentlemen asked my wife and I if we needed help and than, even more importantly, left us alone when we said "we were just looking around". Even more impressed.

    I sincerely hope that this shop stays in business.
     
  8. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    No, I call it a shop just like you do, but the extra value you found it it (thing things you described) are club-like, and most importantly, they didn't make money (or not enough) for that particular shop. And the point about the song is simply that the metaphor is a false statement - video did NOT kill the radio star. In the same way, the internet is not killing fly-shops. Just my opinion.
     
  9. miyawaki

    miyawaki Active Member

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    It's not a question of doing our best to mat, we must match all our channel prices. Online, catalog and retail prices at Orvis are the same.

    Leland.
     
  10. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    too much sense is never enough. markets and consumer habits wax and wane. small businesses of all kinds are statistically doomed to fail in the VAST majority of cases. they are always closing, and more so when times are a little tougher. they are always opening, but less so when times are a little tougher. we're obviously in a period when closures are above average, and launches are below average. and if SG is correct, the market is also a little smaller currently. that might make it feel like fly-shops are a dying breed, but that's not true. the market will always want them, and there will always be guys who dream of owning one, and there will always be banks to fund their dream job until they either run out of money or learn how to make it.
     
  11. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Actually the shop I was talking about was still turning a profit when it closed. I believe a lot of the business there was generated by the "club" as you call it. The many guides that frequented the shop brought a lot of customers in and any of the rest of us that used the shop would gladly spend a day or two with newcomers which the owner would send our way knowing we would help. Buy that on the internet. The owner was tired of running the place which is the reason it closed not because it was losing money.
     
  12. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    Well I'd say he must have done quite well with the shop if he could afford to quit his job cause he was tired of it. Good for him, I wish I could.
     
  13. Don Freeman

    Don Freeman Free Man

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    I'm sorry to be so coarse about this, I feel that statement is unadulterated horse shit. I have worked at fly shops and dive shops for years,and understand the critical component of success is customer service. I have seen shops fail because they didn't provide it.

    The fallacy is that you are assuming customers with integrity. From your statement here, I gather that you are a stand up guy who rewards service with loyalty. I wish you were in the majority, but the reality is that the larger market segment would rather save $5 than keep that money in their community. I see it at the shop where I work part time. "Dude" comes in casts every high end rod on the rack, dragging our lines around the parking lot for an hour or so, then grills us about the right reel and leaves. Then he comes back a week later with the rod and reel he bought on line to get us to recommend a line and put on backing. The owner accommodates them, but he's a better man than I. I would tell them to go get their ----ing laptop to do it for them.

    So it's your choice consumers, keep buying cheap Chinese crap on line or at the box stores, or go to a local shop where they will show you what customer service and prompt warranty turn around means .
     
  14. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Don, it's presumptive to aggregate all things Chinese as "cheap Chinese crap." Most of that Chinese origin merchandise is designed in the US or UK and is often sold in US shops, not just on line. The quality of some of that "cheap Chinese crap" is amazingly good, and outstanding for its price. Arrogance works against us, not for us.

    Sg
     
  15. BRsnow

    BRsnow Member

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    Don,
    Avid Diver here as well. If you have a person in the shop casting for an hour or so and you are not able to close the sale, that is your issue. I agree that internet options hurt small shops, but only since people can buy without ever stepping foot in the shop. If you have them in the shop, especially for that long and do not close the sale you are poor at your job. It is like dating, as some point if you want the girl you need to step up. BR
     
  16. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    A wondrous myriad of life lessons from the educated and articulate member from Colorado.
     
  17. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

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    I've never bought anything online. I prefer the"club" atmosphere of shops and shooting the shit. Like omj I like to hold the product in my hands and get a feel of it first. I have my favorite fly shops that I frequent for sure, but I also like to check out new ones. I don't think I've ever drove past an open flyshop without stopping. You can't blame shop owners or employees for deuches that behave like that. Leaning on a customer to make a sale like some used-car salesman smacks of bigbox store mentality, which is one of the main reasons people like me prefer mom and pop type stores. To escape that. I may be a minority in today's global marketplace, but it's loyal customers like me that keep the places alive. I've owned a small business for going on six years, and adaptation is important, but not as much as reputation.
     
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  18. BRsnow

    BRsnow Member

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    Something people are missing here, good customer service does not mean being someone's bitch. BR
     
  19. BRsnow

    BRsnow Member

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    You seem to run into shops doing it right on your level. Nobody thinks coming across as a rude salesman is the way to go. However you are in business to sell stuff. Developing relationships, reputation , good branding goes along way and the there is no better opportunity than when people come into the shop. There is a reason most people who are good at sports are terrible coaches. Have a love for fly fishing, makes you someone who enjoys fly fishing. It does not make you good at running a shop. It makes you good are running shop for a short amount of time. Phil Jackson was a player turned coach who did great, but he also did not follow the normal path. Most fly shops fail in a good economy because the people who run them are good fly fisherman, not good business people. Being good as business is important, seems like being it is dirty on this forum to being a solid business person, like is it not "pure". Well that is nonsense and ends up is closed up shops. Just like a good shop gives good insight into fishing, a shop should ask for good insight in to business. Knowledge enables survival. BR
     
  20. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Starting batch #2, less salt this time ;).

    popcorn.jpeg
     

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