You can't have it both ways!

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Bob Triggs, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,138
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +791 / 1
    Wow, lot's of questions; I'll answer in order;
    Conversations are private -- this is an open thread
    No, no more than you are a sheeple following the herd and piling on
    Guess I'd have to say Blackjack (Ping-pong a close second) about your other statement... "Done a little time? If not you have no idea what being someone's bitch is about"... care to elaborate?
  2. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,764
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,784 / 0
    It is obvious you have no idea...................
  3. Kcahill Active Member

    Posts: 894
    Renton, WA
    Ratings: +262 / 2
    That's the way you need it...
    orangeradish likes this.
  4. Eric Candelaria Member

    Posts: 94
    North Bend, Wa
    Ratings: +22 / 0

    I have to say I completely understand the frustration of a small business owner in the past few years of a luxury sport such as fly fishing. I am sure some of you are thinking, "Luxury"??? Well it is a luxury to be able to go fishing with a $500 plus rod and $200 plus reel, $70 worth of fly line, and a hand full of $3 fly’s. Oh and if it is raining, don't forget your $400 jacket all from the local fly shop!
    With that said I have to admit I buy almost all my gear and needs from local shops, so owners back off! So why is it I am so loyal to local shops and not buying on Ebay or Amazon? Many have said it here in previous posts, SERVICE!
    Think about this, just in the past two years I have purchased for myself and my family a Drift boat, 5 different fly roads and reels, and countless other supplies, all from two local shops. Funny thing though, I live in North Bend. Most of you know the shop closest to my home and due to "SERVICE" I have either bought all of the above from Pacific Fly fishers or RED's. Now why would I drive an hour in either direction? Great advice, great discussion, friendly, knowledgeable, not trying to gouge me, but they make an honest dollar after the unbelievable rate the manufacturers get.
    Perception is everything. I love the small shop owners, but if you're loosing my business to others, it is because of the value that I am looking for. Now I don’t think for a second that EVERYONE is like me. But, as an owner of a business I would think that my perception of your value is far more important to you than your perception of your value? One makes money the other doesn't mean a thing to those of us paying for your products and services.

    Simple consumer who lives to fish
  5. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,764
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,784 / 0

    It would appear I have become a special interest to you. I have not resorted to calling you names except to poke a bit of fun at your handle, which I guess you likely need to hide behind. Yet you seem to have a need to make up special names for me. I guess I should be flattered but actually I am feeling a bit sorry that you need to degrade me to make yourself seem relevant. What do you want know about my statement regarding doing time? Do you need some training in being a bitch? I might not be the one to do it for you but if you indeed need something shoved up your ass I know a few folks that will oblige you. You have to be to sorriest mother f’er posting here. The only response you got on this thread was from me after you made a number insults pointed my way. I likely need to drop you on my ignore list but for some reason reading your posts is similar to watching a sixty year old streaker, one doesn’t want to look but it is almost damn impossible to look away. Keep it up and I will try to not gawk so much.
  6. Kcahill Active Member

    Posts: 894
    Renton, WA
    Ratings: +262 / 2
    any way you want it...
    Steffan Brown likes this.
  7. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,138
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +791 / 1
    ...and you eat out of that mouth too...simply amazing.:eek:
  8. jessejames Flyslinger

    Posts: 1,867
    Show Low, Arizona
    Ratings: +352 / 3
    You guys want to take this out in the parking lot.:rolleyes:
    Ed Call and Steve Vaughn like this.
  9. coastal cutthroat Member

    Posts: 78
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +11 / 0
    Wow, I don't know what to say, but, in the best tradition of this thread, that isn't going to stop me. I live in Seattle and shop in a couple of fly shops in the area -- mostly the Avid Angler, but also Orvis and Puget Sound Fly Company. I highly recommend them all. Sometimes I'm there to buy a handful of feathers or hooks, sometimes to buy a rod or line or reel. It always takes me an hour or more to get done; no that's the wrong way to put it -- it always takes me an hour or more to leave. I guess I'm one of those guys taking up the time of the staff; I hope I'm not driving you out of the shop w/o your purchase, my friends' livelihood depends on you, me and the rest of the community making those purchases.

    The stuff I buy in a fly shop, while necessary for my sanity, isn't ever an emergency purchase. The on the water part of the sport, at least for me, isn't a social experience; I enjoy fishing alone and even when I'm off with a partner we're a few hundred feet or yards apart on the water. For me, the social part of the sport does take place in the shops; I listen and learn some (sometimes not), I talk and maybe distribute information, but mostly I get a sense of community of folks who have a common interest. Snarlac stop by the shops when you have some time to spare -- buying equipment isn't supposed to be only a highly efficient business transaction. Who knows, you might meet some people you grow to like.
  10. Matthew Kaphan Active Member

    Posts: 271
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +41 / 1
    Thread cliff notes:

    A) Some shops need to have better service and work on adding value to their product.
    2) Some people are going to buy at the lowest price they can find, regardless of what kind of service or value the shop provides.

    Nothing else to see here. Move along.
    snarlac likes this.
  11. Bill Aubrey Active Member

    Posts: 939
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +165 / 0
    "This is the most reasonable and accurate post that you have made in this thread.
    If this would have been the your reply to the OP we would have probably avoided much of the flaming rhetoric.
    You see BR in the first comment you castigasted fly shop owners because they could not make a sale to visitors to the shop that had no intention of buying something. You put all of the blame on the sales team assuming they did nothing to easn the sale, yet did not acknowledge that some folks are just inclined to not buy in brick and morter environments, Then you went on the lump all fly shop owners in a group that needed to learn to close the deal. Most fly shops don't have a little room where they take potential buyers and then bring in the professional closer to make the sale. This is not a car dealership. Most of us fly shop owners know that sometimes it takes a guy two or three visits (and permission from a spouse) before they drop a grand for a rod, reel line etc. Having a goal of trying to get a sale before the customer leaves the shop is good but the real goal for our shop is to give everyone an experience that makes them want to come back, because we can't make money and keep the doors open if people are not going to walk in the door.
    Your insight that not all fly fishers make good business owners is correct although not revolutionary. When my son and I began the process of of opening a fly shop we had years of small business experince in our background. Then we enlisted the help of additional small business owners to counsel us. We have a CPA, a banker, a former fly shop owner, a couple of regional manufacturer reps and a an MBA in marketing as a part of our overall management. In addition we have two very supportive and hardworkoing spouses.
    Will this guarentee success? No, it will however give us a better chance, the rest is up to market conditions, weather, river flows, the Euro crises and the price of Starbuck coffee.
    What pissed me off BR is your arrogant attitude that we shop owners were, as a group, just a bunch of guys who stumbled into the business expecting that the fly fishing world owed us a living.
    I hope that in your consulting business that you adopt the approach in the post above rather than your first few posts, I am sure that it will be more palatable to your prospective clients.
    The fly shop business is no different than any other retail service business, there are good ones and bad ones the good ones generally succeed and the bad ones do not.

    To borrow a line from My Cousin Vinny, "dead on balls accurate"! Well said, Jesse.

    I have long been a believer in the save our fly shops movement. There once was a great fly shop/tobacco and pipe store right down the road from Orvis in Manchester, VT. I bought 2 great rods there and got some great free instruction in the lot out back from an aging hippie clenching a pipe between his teeth. Awesome..., but he ain't there any more. And then, we lost the Morning Hatch here in Tacoma. After 25 years! And the list goes on. About a month ago, I found out that Brooks Sanford shuttered his Clark Fork Trout and Tackle in St Regis. (He is still running his guide business) Just this week, I was lining up a trip to see my family in Florida and got on the website of the local (and great) shop for reports, etc--they are closing this month. Damn! And one common thread running through these? I'm putting my money on guys going in and trying a rod or trying on waders and getting on line and ordering them. And in the case of a lot of products like Simms, Sage, etc, for the same price just to save sales tax that the shop has no control over.
  12. Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    Posts: 2,701
    Snoqualmie, WA
    Ratings: +887 / 1
    It's true about Brooks - he does however have inventory and flies, etc. in the local grocers I believe is what I heard.
  13. jessejames Flyslinger

    Posts: 1,867
    Show Low, Arizona
    Ratings: +352 / 3
    Brooks sold the fly shop business to the folks that run the grocery store in St Regis, they moved it into the store. Brooks still has his outfitting business and meets his clients there. Things were awful tough last year he did not have his first guided trip until july 15 because of the high water. It will be better this year.