Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Mark Walker, Nov 16, 2008.
Thanks for the smiles and good read.
"Gun control" is hitting what you shoot at.
Let us not forget that Oback Obama taught constitutional law for eleven years at Chicago University a bastion of conservative law and one of our finest law schools.
It was all in fun. I use a pump for home security; 6 shot, 18 1/4 inch barrell Mossburg loaded with #4 buck. I only want a double because I have never owned one before and likely a smaller gauge like a 28 for upland bird hunting. A little lighter to pack around than a 12 pump.
I don't think we will need to do anything to keep this thread going as it is starting to turn political. I give this thread another couple hours of life before getting shut down.
Thank you Kent, Les and Derek. I cannot cipher out just what these gun worshipers are afraid of. The only voices I hear about anyone "coming o take their guns" are the gun owners themselves.
Like Les, I personally packed a terrifying mass of fire power through two Tet offenses for the Marines back in the 60's. I had an automatic rifle, a pistol, grenade launcher and a belt fed 30 cal within reach for 13 months. And despite getting into some dicey situations I should have avoided since, I've never felt the need for a people weapon again.
What is it you're afraid of? I'll tell you what scares me, any clown with a credit card or a brick can get his hands on an assault weapon, with no filter on what he's going to do with it. About 20 years ago, some little cheesedick in Eugene spent the night getting stoned and watching and re-watching that puke Rambo movie. Come dawn, he broke into a gun store down town, and stole an AR-15 he'd been admiring, but couldn't afford. He tied a sock around his head, and went down to the U of O, where he murdered an Olympic class runner stretching out for his run, shot a wrestler and a coach, and made a name for himself, which fortunately, I've forgotten. I can still picture the runner and his little boy watching my soccer games, though I try not to.
My point is that this sick fascination with the "mystique" of machismo from a 20 round magazine is too easy to indulge, and doesn't have much upside.
If someone were to break into my home, AND threaten me or mine (not our stuff, stuff ain't worth killing for) I would very likely kill him with the 12 gauge, katana sword or K-bar I still keep handy, but I hate guns and the thought of how many geeks with goiters are out there stockpiling Glocks and AK-47's for???
I hope I haven't offended anyone.
So what is not understood?
Why someone would want a semi automatic rifle, pistol or shotgun or the Constitution?
Well Mumbles I have to take issue with your blanket statement here on a number of points.
First, I was born in Wyoming and lived there until graduating from college in 1970. I found the veracity of Wyoming women continually suspect. Whenever I invited them out they consistently told me they had other plans. Now while that may have been true in some instances, I doubt it was factual in every case.
Second, may I direct you to a story from my hometown paper The Cody Enterprise from July 11, 2007 about a gunman spraying a crowded Wal Mart parking lot with bullets.
No one was hurt but contrary to your friend’s assertion the presence of a well-armed populace did not prevent the gunman’s actions or cut them short. He was eventually identified, tried and convicted. As I recall he was shooting at another guy he had been feuding with and had a history of anger management problems and poor aim.
Finally I just did a quick Goggle search for violent crime statistics by state and found this site with a whole bunch of numbers:
While I can hardly provide a careful analysis of all the figures available there and noting that the murder rate does not necessary equate with the misuse of firearms, here’s a quick summary of what I found interesting:
The national murder rate for 2007 was 5.6 per 100,000 inhabitants
Wyoming was 3.1 per 100,000
In adjoining Montana 1.5 and in Utah 2.2
Closer to home Washington 2.7
In the well armed Republic of Texas 5.9
and Michigan 6.7
So, whatever the reason, it looks like we’re all a little safer than average in the rocky mountain states where there are a lot of good people who are gun owners. Even if the cute ones won’t go out with me.
I would venture a guess about those murder rates in various states. I think it probably has a lot to do with population density. In those states with really low rates, there are not the same kind of populations centers as in Texas and Michigan, with cities like Detroit, Houston, etc.
Another thought--it seems that what people are scared of, and why they want to have guns, is because there are other people out there with guns. I think if you look at other countries, where they don't have this entrenched history of owning firearms and all that, you see a lot less gun crime. People don't have guns, don't want them, don't need them. A few people might have a rifle or shotgun for hunting, but that's about it.
I think it's a really unique thing, our obsession with guns here in the U.S. In other countries where I've spent time, people absolutely don't understand it. I don't really either.
I don't know. I'm not saying I necessarily think people shouldn't have guns. People want to hunt, that's fine. But I think there is too much obsession with these "gun rights" in our country, as well. And I think it's sad. I don't understand what people are so scared of. I think most folks who are obsessed with having a gun just use this whole "protection" idea as a way to justify having something that they really have no good use for.
Oh well. Happy hunting.
I have to choose between a pistol or the Constitution? I guess that's the part I don't understand.
I have a great deal of faith in the Constitution, those who support it, and who realize it's strength lies in the whole document, not just picking one sentence out of a part you like.
I asked a simple question, "what are you afraid of?" I worry about paranoids who think they need to carry a gun every where they go. Ask that kid's mom who shot himself in the head at the gun show last month. I bet she sleeps better knowing that there are thousands of "experts" with an Uzi like the one who was teaching her son out there keeping us all safe.
Okay, that was a cheap shot. I just think that as long was we're paying billions a year for a military and law enforcement, I am comfortable leaving the heavy lifting to professionals. There are instances of random violence in America, but can't believe arming everyone can reduce the incidence. I know many decent people who feel differently, but I am not a threat to you or your weapons. I do hope you all can keep those things in your pants until genuinely in a life threatening situation. Knowing the difference can be tricky, even when not angry, drunk or jealous.
I own guns because I like to shot guns. Its fun. We were out in the backyard shooting yesterday. Funny after we started the neighbors started shooting also. Sounded like a South LA street fight.
One of the handguns I just purchased would be a lousy gun for protection. It has a heavy 6 inch barrel and isn't good for much but target shooting which is exactly what I bought it for. The other one does have a 3 inch barrel and could be used as a carry weapon but I bought it mostly because it is light and a small caliber that my wife can shoot. Being it is a small caliber gun probably makes it impratical to use as a self protection weapon.
As I said in an earlier post for protection I have a 12 guage shotgun. The most firepower you can legally own and likely the easiest to use. Truly point and shoot.
Larry, I only know the one woman from WY and I took what she told me as a long time resident as logical at face value. I agree that there are areas where the per capita violent crime rates are higher and I'm glad I don't live in any of those places any longer, I did live in a few of them in my younger days. Good luck with the cute gun toting ladies of WY, I'm sure that one of them will see fit to enjoy your company.
Mumbles -- My wonderful wife is from Chicago and plays violin. At least that's what she says is in the case.
I was at the range the other day sighting in my rifle for deer season, and I was amazed at some of the "ignorant" and dangerous behaviors exhibited by two guys there with more guns than ANYONE I've ever seen. These guys had it all; assault rifles, short Uzi-looking things, handguns, rifles, all sorts of shit I had never seen.
Over the course of the next hour and a half, the range officer had to tell one of the guys TWICE to put down his firearm and step behind the redline while the 100-yard range was "cold". This ding-dong was loading his gun while there were guys out on the range hanging up targets. The second time he did it, he sat down to begin shooting at his target while a man he didn't see in his periphery was still out hanging up a target. It was an accident, however, this is not excusable given the fact that the range officer had not flipped the lights off and announced the range "hot", and that every other person was standing behind the line waitng patiently. The guy was asked to pack up and leave. He apologized to us all, but I didn't give a rip. His carelessness could have killed someone.
I like my guns as much as anybody, but I think the NRA is full of shit about 50% of the time and they definitely like to use fear to push their agenda. I hate it when the media does it, and I hate it when the NRA does it, or anyone else for that matter. I don't need an assault rifle to protect my home. I really don't care whether or not my pistol is concealed. If I go somewhere I feel I need it, I will just wear in plain view.
I have seen some seriously low folks on the "intellectual food chain" with enough firepower to kill a couple hundred people (like the guys at the range). I'm not saying that this is the case with most gun owners, but it's enough to talk about. I think people who are more prone to fear, feel the need for more weapons. I also believe that the less educated you are, the more easily you succumb to fear, paranoia, and propaganda. I know this has been the case with myself over the last 30 years with respect to my own maturation and increased education. Do you think more guns are owned by people with low levels of education (highschool graduates or less) or better educated individuals (4 year college degrees, Masters, or Ph.D?). I don't know the answer, but based purely on personal experience, most of the serious gun-toters I know are very blue-collar guys with little or no undergrad or Post-grad schooling. Not that this makes them necessarily "less intelligent", because we all know a formal education doesn't equate to intelligence. In fact, some of the guys I know that are really into guns are kinesthetic geniuses with their hands and tools. They're just not real cerebral, they watch a lot of news, and I hear them parrot what they just read or heard from their local newspaper or newschannel. I think some of them are easily influenced, thats all. I'm done rambling now. I'm going to go play with my muzzleloader. Jeff
I have an O/U, but I think a side by side looks way cooler when sawed-off.
To say, 17.5 inches.
Splatter patterns are running through my mind! Short, sweet and definately to the point.
I'm more concerned about my 1st and 3rd-27th ammendment rights... At least someone cares about one of the ammendments....