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Tipping a guide...

27K views 206 replies 83 participants last post by  the central oregonian 
#1 ·
How much do you tip a guide for a day's services? I'm not asking how much you SHOULD tip, WANT TO tip or WOULD tip you can afford it. How much really comes out of your pocket? Guides: How much do you get - high, low, average?
 
#2 ·
One of the interesting things about these kinds of threads is that anglers and guides who post indicate tips well above the 15-20% range that is the guidelines for waiters and waitresses when dining out. I've tipped 10-15% and 20% on occasion.

I used to think tipping guides was silly for the same reason I don't tip my plumber, electrician, etc. These are tradesmen who set their own rates and are making well above the $5.85/hr that a lot of waiters/waitresses receive. I've since been persuaded that, silly or not, tipping guides is pretty standard practice.

Sg
 
#4 ·
That's not really fair. River conditions vary from day to day. A guide might work his ass off to get his client a couple fish when conditions are poor (while overcoming many clients poor fishing skills). Following your logic you would tip very little or nothing.... Not every day is going to result in big numbers.
 
#5 ·
I tip a guide based on the kind of service I get, not how many fish we catch. The guide cannot control the fish, but I have had guides who clearly worked really hard to put us over fish when the fishing was slow. I have had guides keep fishing for several hours past the time we would have quit because the fishing got really good late in the trip. Those guides earned the tip; they got more than 15% sometimes much more. For an average day I tip 10 -15%. I have not tipped when the service was poor - guide showed up late, did not seem to have his act together, would not shut up talking subjects other than fishing (mostly politics) all day.
 
#14 ·
CWUGirl,

I understand perfectly that tips are customary in the fishing guide business. I haven't said they aren't. What I have said was in my first post in this thread, that I don't understand why tipping guides is customary, since it's a trade comparable to the hypothetical plumber and electrician who all set their own fees based on what they think their time and skill is worth, along with the competitive aspects of their respective markets. Yet plumbers and electricians, as far as I know, work for hourly rates and don't expect nor receive tips. However, fishing guides do receive tips.

Fishing guides are not waiters or waitresses. At $350 - $400 per day they are not making the $5.85 per hour paid to wait staff who depend on tips for much of their income. I'll duly note that the guide is providing a boat and has other overhead that wait staff don't. If fishing guides want to compare their service to waitressing, I'll be expecting a significant downward adjustment in their rates.

I don't know much about the expectations part of the guiding business. The guides I've talked about it with all say that tips are not expected. However, they are very much appreciated. So whether it's pretty much expected that there will be a tip involved appears uncertain to me. And because it's a tip and not part of the base fee, whether to tip and the amount of the tip is totally at the discretion of the client. That is why I chided Alpinetrout for his comment to Esibnitsud. He's free and entirely within his perogative to tip for whatever reasons he chooses, be it a very large number of fish landed, or a super shore side lunch, or the congenial graciousness of the guide, whatever. Esibnitsud doesn't have to use Alpine's criteria for tipping. Period. Alpine, you, and I can suggest reasons for tipping and criteria for calculating a tip, but that's the limit of our authority.

When I go to a restaurant I assume I will leave a tip because it is customary. That's the main reason. And I accept that it is customary because the prevailing wage in the wait staff industry is notoriously low. But I gage the amount I tip on the quality of the service provided, and I follow what I understand to be the accepted standard of 15-20% for good service. Twice I've left a nickel to make it clear that I hadn't forgotten to tip, but tipped according to what I thought the service was worth when it was especially bad, not just poor.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
 
#15 ·
CWUGirl,

I don't understand why tipping guides is customary, since it's a trade comparable to the hypothetical plumber and electrician who all set their own fees based on what they think their time and skill is worth, along with the competitive aspects of their respective markets. Yet plumbers and electricians, as far as I know, work for hourly rates and don't expect nor receive tips. However, fishing guides do receive tips.
A good fishing guide provides a much different service than a plumber or electrician. when was the last time your plumber brought you under your sink and taught you how to fix the problem for next time. or how bout the last time your plumber brought out a part from his tool box that he built on his own time and made your pipes run better?
 
#16 ·
Well written and thoughtful post... When I first started using fly fishing guides some 20 years ago, I had no idea they expected or received tips, and thought much along the lines that Salmo posted above. Over time I discovered that some people do tip the guides, and some guides expect to be tipped. It seems that in recent times there has been more tipping of guides and more expectation that a tip is due. I agree that it is confusing to the consumer as to what the expectations are, and I guess I should clarify ahead of time with the guide what those tipping expectations are before going on a trip, so no one is surprised and everyone feels good about the deal. I also agree that a tip should not be based on how many fish are caught, or if that is what a tip is based on, then the client should let the guide know ahead of time what is expected so the guide can act accordingly. When I've used a guide and been skunked, I usually still feel it was worth the money because I learned a lot about the river/lake, learned how to better read the water, learned where the fish might hold at different water levels, learned different techniques, and so on. With fly fishing for steelhead, if my expectations were only for catching lots of fish, I'd sure be sorely disappointed on a lot of guided trips! With fly fishing for pink salmon or chums, you'll likely catch a lot of fish, but does that mean you should tip more than for a steelheading trip? Not to me... If it was up to me, we'd eliminate tipping and just have the guides charge what they think their service is worth, and then we can decide whether to use the guide or not. That way it is clear and upfront, like the "No Dicker Sticker" for auto purchases.

Rex
 
#44 ·
If it was up to me, we'd eliminate tipping and just have the guides charge what they think their service is worth, and then we can decide whether to use the guide or not. That way it is clear and upfront, like the "No Dicker Sticker" for auto purchases.
Bingo. Just charge what you're worth, especially if you are a sole proprietor. However, if the guide is an employee of the guide service, then a tip may be more in order, as they are only getting a portion of what you paid for the trip.
 
#18 ·
How'd this thread become about plumbers?

When trying to justify tipping someone you just paid $350, it might help to ask yourself whether the fishing/teaching/lunch was to your standards. It might help more to ask whether this guide would turn down someone who they know doesn't tip. My guess is they would book the trip and guarantee themselves $350. I don't mean any of this to suggest you shouldn't tip, only that it's far from mandatory.


Ryan
 
#50 ·
That's a good idea. My dad just retired and the next time he comes to visit I want to take him on a Yak canyon float. I might just leave my 16' Don Hill at home and see about getting a guide from Red's to do all the work for us with the up-front tip thing.

My experience with guides is solely limited to a lodge in Alaska on the Alagnak. The guides were excellent and totally fun to fish with, drink with (in the late evenings after they busted their butts building new cabins etc. after guiding all day) and to hang out with for a week. The all deserved every dollar I could scrape up to tip them.
 
G
#21 ·
"I don't tip because society says I
gotta. I tip when somebody
deserves a tip. When somebody
really puts forth an effort, they
deserve a little something extra.
But this tipping automatically,
that s%*t's for the birds. As far
as I'm concerned, they're just
doin their job." - Mr. Pink, Reservoir Dogs

I couldn't resist...

In a perfect world the guide should tip ME. He is getting paid to put folks into fish, wade and paddle around in beautiful rivers. How many of you go to work in waders? :)
 
#23 ·
"I don't tip because society says I
gotta. I tip when somebody
deserves a tip. When somebody
really puts forth an effort, they
deserve a little something extra.
But this tipping automatically,
that s%*t's for the birds. As far
as I'm concerned, they're just
doin their job." - Mr. Pink, Reservoir Dogs

:)
Damn good quote!
 
#25 ·
Guiding with multiple clients is like bird dogging.

I am responsible for watching out for safety, success, and for paying attnetion to all of the little things and conditions that clients may not be aware of or may not have seen. If you arent tired at the end of the day it is because you werent doing your job well enough.
 
#26 ·
I have enjoyed the conversation so far and appreciate all the input, esp. CWUGirl and Salmo_g. Very well presented thoughts. If I may get back to the original post, however... how much is actually coming out of your/their pocket? $20? $50? $100?

When I went on my first (and only) guided trip, I was treated to a great day by a young man who knew what he was doing. We didn't catch a lot, but my wife and I learned a lot and really appreciated his effort. When I asked him about what a customary tip might be, he refused to say anything beyond something like "You don't have to give me a tip, but usually people pay based on how well they were treated". Not an exact quote, but you get the idea. Remember, this was my first experience. His answer was correct and it was diplomatic but it was not HELPFUL. I ended up paying him $40 and have wondered ever since how a person is supposed to know what "customary" is. That is what got me on to this train of thought. Even better than that would be knowing how much people REALLY pay in the real world, not in theory. :confused:
 
#109 ·
I have enjoyed the conversation so far and appreciate all the input, esp. CWUGirl and Salmo_g. Very well presented thoughts. If I may get back to the original post, however... how much is actually coming out of your/their pocket? $20? $50? $100?
I'll answer you directly....for a recent solo trip fishing over salmon, my guide charged a very reasonable $150. We had a fine day with me taking home 2 chrome coho & releasing 4 kings. The conversation was good & his company better. I learned a few tricks & a new piece of river fished a full 8 hours. I tipped him $50, that's about 35%.

Most trips I take are in a drift boat or a sled with 2 fishermen, those run $350 for the boat & guide. The lowest we have ever tipped as a team is $40, high $100. Most times out if we or our leader wants to grab a bite in the am we will buy the guide breakfast too.....:ray1:

Thats how I roll.

c/22
 
#27 ·
I always tip the guide, but never based on numbers of fish caught. If a guide goes above and beyond what I would consider his or her normal effort, I'll tip even more.
One of my best trips ever resulted in very few fish being caught, but the guide made the experience a great fishing memory.
Brian
 
#28 ·
Derek,

25% of what? Of what the client pays the lodge? That’s a very different figure than what the guide is paid. I’m trying to figure this one out as I’ve got a trip this month at a lodge, something I’ve never done before. The lodge has a cook and housekeeping service, so that’s like tipping typical hotel and wait staff. Then there is the fishing guide, one per two anglers. Gets pretty complicated since tipping staff is customary. However, a good part of the fee covers amortization of the lodge and profit for the owners. Is it customary to tip such things as mortgage and profit in addition to the labor of staff people? That flat out doesn’t make sense to me.

Jonathan,

I don't know how much other people tip their guides, so I developed my own rule of thumb, so to speak. As I explained above, I'm confused and befuddled about this notion of tipping fishing guides, but I accept that it is customary. I haven't hired many guided fishing trips, since I learned to fish on my own decades ago when I couldn't possibly afford a guide, and besides, there were no fly fishing guides in the PNW then anyway.

I usually tip 10-15%, with 20% for a couple outstanding trips. What that pencils out to in cash varies because the cost of trips has varied from a discounted to $250/day up to $425/day for two or three anglers in the latter case. I don't know how much my fishing partners tipped, so I can only report for myself. Is it the right amount? It is for me because I feel comfortable doing it, and none of the guides has looked back at me like they were being short-changed, and each has indicated they would like me to keep them in mind if I need guide service in their area again.

My point to you is that you should tip your guide if you feel like it, and you should choose an amount that you're comfortable with, and forget what anyone else thinks about it. It's about the business relationship between you and your guide. Everyone who lists a bunch of "oughts and ought nots" is making up stories because no one offers up any published account of social or etiquette rules on tipping fishing guides. All we have to go on is that it appears to be customary, at least in recent years, and that the % varies quite a bit. With that much info to go on, you're in good company whether you tip $40 or $80. Another way to look at it is this: if a guide turns down your request for a future booking, ask him if he'll be up front with you and tell you why. If he chooses not to tell you after you provide the perfect opportunity, then he owns the problem, not you.

CWUGirl,

I don’t need other reasons. The reasons I gave are the only valid ones in my opinion. I’m disputing those reasons that appear related to guides somehow “deserving” tips because their pay is too low (why not raise their rates if they’re independent?) or because they have business overhead expenses. Those reasons do not withstand a critical analysis. It’s a fact of life that some jobs pay less than others. No one twists a person’s arm and makes them become a fishing guide. They take that job because it’s what they want to do or because it’s the best occupational fit they can come up with. They know what they’re getting in to regarding compensation.

Just because someone cannot afford a tip in no way means they shouldn’t book a guided fishing trip unless the guide forewarns the prospective client that he expects a tip. That’s sort of like an unwritten demand. I have no use for such indirect bullpucky; be direct or be quiet about it is how I play the game of life. I refuse to bear other people’s problems for them. If the guide books a trip and his client doesn’t tip him, the lack of a tip is the guide’s problem, not the client’s. If it’s that big of a deal, then the guide doesn’t have to book that client in the future.

You mention that guiding isn’t a 5-day/week job and that guides go for periods of time without work. That’s true. That is called a part-time job. In no way is that my or other clients’ problem, and we do not owe guides a tip to tide them over during periods when they’re not working for criminy sake. Add that to one of the dumbest reasons for tipping.

So we’re back to the only valid reasons I listed earlier: tipping’s customary, and it’s an expression of the client’s appreciation and gratitude for a good experience. Therefore whatever % or amount a client chooses to tip is the right amount.

I’ve engaged in this discussion for my own curiosity and to learn what reasons might substantiate tipping fishing guides. In my estimation the additional reasons you added don’t make the cut, but since tipping is voluntary, you’re welcome to tip for those reasons.

At least Mr. Pink from Reservoir Dogs makes the sort of sense that most anyone can understand.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
 
#29 ·
G-
at big lodges you are talking about going to they typically share out whatever tip you give between guides, housestaff, etc... From what i know about the big lodges (having never been to one as a guest or guide) it is typical to tip based on the cost of the trip. i have a buddy who just got back from belize and he and his friend tipped 50 dollars per person per day, obviously what ever you do is up to you.

As far as the tipping per fish it is frustrating as a guide to hear that because you cant control how many fish people catch, but like you said, its one's own decision.
 
#31 ·
Very interesting discussion and valid points made by all. I am a guide and I have paid for guided trips in areas I was not familiar with or did not have my equipment. I would agree that 10-15% is average tip I have received. This is about $20-$50 per person on the trip. On the odd occassion I would receive a much higher tip but this is infrequent and happens about as much as no tip. I do not expect a tip. I give all of my clients the best of my efforts and knowledge in the short time we spend together. I've been tipped on no-fish trips, one fish, and on 30 fish trips. I have also not been tipped on many occassions. At the end of the day, I appreciate every tip I receive. I also appreciate the business so I would never refuse a trip because I knew that the client wasn't going to tip. If that were the case I wouldn't end up taking most people from outside North America where it is not customary to tip.
Tip what you please, as I do. To make a point about tipping and the overusage of it: I have purposely written on Visa slips "no tip" to let them know I didn't forget the tip I just made sure they knew I felt they did not deserve one. I encourage you to do so. If I were to receive no tip from you I would not think about it for long unless I knew that you actually meant to not to give me one.

C. Goyette - Squamish
 
#33 ·
I know this is off-topic slightly but I have to chime in. Not tipping a waiter/waitress is absolutely outlandish. This person either gets paid minimum wage or often times, below minimum wage. In the restaurant industry (in the U.S. at least) tipping is an expected/assumed part of one's wages, which is why restaurants can pay $3-4 per hour in some (many) cases.

Tipping a guide however, is an entirely different matter altogether.
 
#34 ·
Interesting. I like Salmo_g's logic. I'm like Johnathan in that I don't use a guide enough to know what's expected.

I hope I don't hijack this thread but I have a situation coming this fall. I'm booked with a guide for a steelhead trip that I almost accidentally won in a charity auction. All my money so far has gone to "Cast for a Cure", none to the guide who offered the item for auction. I'm inclined to tip him well because of the neat thing he's doing for the cause and because I won the item at such a low price, as long as it's not a disastrous trip, like maybe half-assed effort because the guide figures I'm getting him for free. Maybe 50-80% of his usual fee. At 50%, it's like the guide and I are splitting the donation down the middle. What guidance can you folks give?
 
#35 ·
Paul, I like the notion of 50% in that case, so that you're both contributing half the fee to the charitable cause. Each of you could feel good about contributing to the cause. If the guide sandbags that day because he sees it as a free trip for you, then I'd rethink my charity toward the guide.

Sg
 
#36 ·
Greenstork,

It's not outlandish to not tip a waiter/waitress. It's outlandish that restaurants can pay less than minimum wage, if that's what they're doing. Tipping may be expected and assumed, but since it is voluntary and since customers often calculate their tip according to the price of the meal and the quality of the service, it's outlandish to expect and assume based on something so tenuous. See my other comment about being direct or being quiet. It's outlandish to expect me to bear someone else's problem. It's not that I'm a mean or uncharitable person; I do tip and do so according to the standards as I understand them. But I do draw distinctions between responsibilities and voluntary behavior. The surest way to not get a tip from me is to demand one. The next surest, crappy service, and I leave a nickel to leave a message.

Sg
 
#37 ·
TIPS= "To insure propt service."

Good thread here, but, save for 'cow girl' and her $100 up front, most have long lost sight of what a 'tip' was all about. It was not to say 'thank you' for doing your basic job, but to get you to do your 'job' "promptly."

"However, I'm trying to be clear that of all the reasons given for tipping guides, the only ones that stand up to my critical analysis is that the tips are an expression of a client's appreciation and gratitude for a good trip. I can be persuaded that there are other reasons, but you'll need to make an effective case."

Equipment, knowledge, etc., aside, I see little reason to tip a guide who has already been reasonably paid for his services. Present thinking is a 'tip' is required for someone doing their basic job function, be that take your order for a meal (and delivering same) or a day on the river. Perhaps this is why, in many places in the world, tipping (as such) is not only frowned upon, but actively discouraged. One restaurant owner (Italy) I talked to (all-be-it several years ago) said (to the effect) 'I already pay my staff a good wage .....':ray1:

In these situations, if you left a tip -which I usually did - it was hidden under the coffee cup.

Personal feeling is I have a basic understanding what I'm paying for when I sit down, be that at a table or in a drift boat. It's what goes on beyond that point that I even begin to think about an 'extra.' :hmmm:
 
#39 ·
This thread is a very good read! I am a guide and I have always woundered what people thought of tipping and this thread has enlightened me greatly. Now I do not expect to get a tip but when I do now matter how much or little it is I feel greatfull for it. I give it my all ever trip and put in a full day 10 to 12 hours if not more every trip and try my best to make sure everyone has a good time regardless if they are going to tip or not, because to me its not about money its about the people who are on the boat and letting them experience what I get to every day!!! I would never turn down a trip because I know the person is not going to tip that is just bad business, besides the boss wouldnt go for it either ;)
Dances
 
#41 ·
To answer your original question, I usually tip $100 per boat per day. I research (actually my fishing buddy does) the guide or fish with a guide who I've fished with before. I know I'm going to get top quality service and have an enjoyable day. If we get skunked and the guide worked his butt off to do everything he could to get us fish, that's $100 for me. I don't use guides often, but if I find a good one, I'll likely use them again. I'd rather be remembered at the start of a subsequent trip as the client who tips well.

Just my humble opinion.
 
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