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Tipping a guide...

27K views 206 replies 83 participants last post by  the central oregonian 
#1 ·
How much do you tip a guide for a day's services? I'm not asking how much you SHOULD tip, WANT TO tip or WOULD tip you can afford it. How much really comes out of your pocket? Guides: How much do you get - high, low, average?
 
#43 ·
My barber gets a $3 tip on a $12 cut and an extra $20 at X-mas. Why is simply because she is worth it. She does a great job, open 7 days and I rarely wait. Thanks for reminding me to stop on the way home! A good barber is a lot harder to find than a good guide.
 
#45 ·
I'm a new guide on the board and to fly fishing, but here are my thoughts. I've done two guided trips in my limited flyfishing experience and I tipped on both of them although I did it with a bit of reluctance. The first trip, my partner was with a guy who guides deer hunts and he obviously felt there should be a tip. I didn't want to be a schmuck and we had a good day so I contributed to the tip. The second time it was the cold end of a winter trip and it was a 1/2 day wade/instruction and I really tipped more out of a felt obligation. I really don't have a problem w/tipping as much as I do the %. As far as a waitress, I pay her for service and the owner for the food. I know they don't pay her a standard wage b/c they factor in tips. If I pay an outfitter, I feel more inclined to tip, b/c I know they take a cut. But if I were paying a guide: Say on average, a guide fee is about $400 for a 10hr trip (probably a stretch) $40/hour is good money even if you are supplying boat, gear etc. I collect about $45 an hour for teaching adjunct at a local university (not including any prep time or the time/expense of getting an MA). To give him another 15-20% of that fee seems a bit much unless the service was exceptional or a special circumstance. I pay tithes at my local church and if the good Lord only requires 10% why should a fishing guide expect more?? Both times my guides were gracious and thankful, but i've run into services (ski lessons, airports, taxis) where I've had people turn their noses at a "standard" tip. That's what ticks me off the most. I don't know how my guides would have reacted if I had handed them a 20 and said thanks, but to me, that is a reasonable gesture of thanks. what would you guides out there have said???
 
#47 ·
Every guide should make the effort to do the best job he/she possibly can. Tipping is just an extra bonus. I do agree with guides who work for lodges and such should be tipped decently because half the time they work for chicken scratch compared to what other independent guides make. Sometimes fishing can just be slow but thats when a great guide knows how to entertain and at least teach whatever can be taught. Teaching a person how to fly fish and catching a few fish vs. taking somebody out who knows how to fly fish and catching alot are the same to me. I think if a guide works his butt off it should be like any gratuity business. As far as the hourly thing I would call bs a little bit simply for the fact that you have such things as gear, gas, other spending expenses that drops that rate way down. Once I am on the water I will stay on the water for as long as the client wants me to but you do have to factor in those other expenses as well. Just my opinion.
 
#52 ·
Just because Your paying $300-600 a day to hire a guide, does not mean he is recieving that amount. Generally the guide is getting paid less than or about half of that, with the rest going to the outfitter, lodge, or flyshop. If any-one hasn't noticed fly-fishing guides arent a particullary wealthy group of individuals. No one ever said, "I'm gonna be a fishing guide so I can get filthy rich and bang supermodels." Fishing guides bust their ass for a hundred or so days a year, for one thing, a love of fishing and the oppurtunity to share that love of fishing with someone else. Tipping a guide is not demanded or expected, but it is a nice gesture. With the rising cost of gas and whiskey, fishing guides have less money in their pocket at the end of every season. So tip what you can afford, and what is deserved.
 
#53 ·
Bill,

Food for thought: How do you know that $100 is a good tip? And does that make $50 a "bad" tip? Is the reason your guide takes care of you because you trust him, or is it because with the guide fee and your definition of a good tip, you pay him well enough that he desires to take care of you. And are you establishing a relationship as much as you are buying a relationship? Is there some relationship that goes beyond the exchange of money? I mean, I once met a hooker, and I'm pretty sure she would have taken care of me with a lot less than a $100 tip. And if I wanted to be a repeat customer, I guess I could have had a "relationship" with her. I just thought a less appropriate anology could shed a different light on the subject.

Sg
 
#54 ·
Henry'sforkbum,

I thought shops take 15% for a booking fee. Is it true they take 50%? For what? Just for booking trips for guides? If true, that seems like a rip-off. I'm surprised guides would work for that.

Outfitters and lodges are different, as they usually own the boats, other gear, and transportation, with the guide providing mainly daily guide service labor for the lodge. That's quite a bit different than being the independent businessman most guides are.

Sg
 
#56 ·
I take it that the ones bitchin are the same who go back to the lodge and tip the bar maid more than then the person dealing with there crap all day. Just in my opinion the guide should get tipped for dealing with you.I know a few guides here and they hate to take out arrogent people especially who tell the guides how to do it. Also talking to some guides they aint living the high life like most of there clients ,there trying to get by just like average joe. You figure there out looking for fish in conditions most wouldn't think of fishing in, and taking all the guess work out so you can just show up and catch a few. I know what goes on because i helped my buddy who is a walleye charter captain take clients out. He two charged a straight rate but that just goes to paying bills and replacing equipment, so any little extra someone threw him really helped. I feel if you can afford the $2-4k per person to fish with a guide you can sure as hell afford a tip. For those who say they tip depending on how may fish you catch I must of missed were when you become a guide mother nature dont affect you. Or maybe try fishing for yourselves for once and see how good you do in bad conditions. If the guide is not getting you fish due to pure laziness take it up with managment. So thanks to those who appreciate there guides, I know i do and tip them no matter how many fish you land. For those who dont well find another hobby like golf-wait you have to tip the caddy nevermind maybe chess or watercolor painting.

P.S JUST TIP WHAT YOU FEEL IS RITE FOR YOU J.G.
 
#57 ·
Again, my only experience with guides has been at one Alaska lodge.

I'm the type of client that allows the guide to be done working within the first 1/2 hour... they tell me where the fish are holding typically and what they're eating. Oh, they work a little, taking the boat from spot to spot and maybe snapping a pic from time to time when I land a hog. Other than that, they can take a nap if they want cuz I don't want someone hovering while I fish. Hell, we encourage them to fish! Actually, I have pics of a couple of my guides snoozing in the boat cuz I knew it would be damn funny at the lodge that night. I also have pics of my favorite guide throwing dry flies on a 4 weight picking off grayling while I picked off rainbows on dries. Before you jump to, "what a lazy bastard" realize that it was on Jeff's and my instruction that they basically let us fish and maybe answered some questions here and there.

All that said, my guides still got tips. Why? Because they were funny bastards that kept us laughing and having a good time, got us safely up and down the river, were attentive when the Griz were nearby, were the ones packin' guns just in case, etc, etc. I think the only real instruction I received up there was how to handtwist retrieve a mouse (a couple minutes after which I got a nice leopard rainbow on a mouse).

Unless your guide is a complete jackass, tip em! They've made a lifestyle career choice that provides a great service to us and we should show our appreciation for that. They are essentially fishing sherpas, keeping us safe, giving us some lunch and helping us achieve our various personal goals on the water.
 
#58 ·
What about other circumstances?
I always tip guides and restaurant staff etc.
Can you give us some advice please, we are staying at a Bed and Breakfast for our holiday when we visit the US from the UK, the rate has been agreed with the husband and wife owners.
So the question is, do we still give a tip on top of the B&B bill?
If so what %?
Many thanks
Richard
 
#61 ·
Gee Bill, did I touch a nerve? I'm sorry if you resent my taking entertainment in replying to your post, but hey, it's the internet. How do you know I or perhaps others don't consider your $100 tip as being a bit on the cheap side? I don't, but I thought the way you set it out there was like a ball on the tee waiting for someone to take a shot at it.

I couldn't resist the hooker analogy when you described establishing a relationship with your guide, but all the evidence you supplied suggests that the relationship is established by purchasing it as opposed to creating it by personally investing time and interest in one another's lives. Absent the money exchanging hands, do you think your guide would feel you had established any meaningful relationship?

I enjoy reading people's rationales for tipping guides and trying to understand their apparent logic and compare or contrast with my own. BTW, I have no quarrel or opposition to tipping guides. The few times I've hired guides I tipped them, but admittedly only because I had previously read on internet forums like this one that it is customary. I wouldn't have otherwise known.

Sg
 
#62 ·
I would prefer a guide who charged whatever his service was worth to everyone and refused all tips, rather than charge not enough and have the rest up to the client or working for a loss. Too many factors in fishing to give (or withold) a tip that are not within a guide's control (weather, client's skill or lack thereof, fish and bug activity, pressure or lack thereof).
 
#63 ·
Really, as I've often said; If you have to ask about the tip ,you can't afford to hire a fishing god. Sober up men. A great guide will save you thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of wild flogging. Although the flogging is really part of the journey. The trick is to find the guide you can work with, it is the Master and the student.
 
#67 ·
I pretty much agree with Snarlac and think guides, if they are independent businessmen, ought to charge what they think they're worth - the marketplace will let them know if they have an over-inflated opinion of the value of their service. I don't think anyone ought to be expected to refuse a tip however.

Randal, I agree that a good guide is a good teacher. My kids had really good piano and violin teachers for that matter. I never expected to have to tip them in addition to the fees they charged. Specifically, what is it that makes you think someone who cannot afford the tip cannot afford the guide? Please use logic and show your work. I'm really interested in how people think - or don't think, but just repeat rhetoric they may have happened upon.

Jeff, what's your rationale? Or is that just a potentially catchy sounding thing to say? Why is someone a cheap bastard for not tipping someone who they just paid a living wage? Tipping the waitress who is being paid less than the minimum wage in order to hopefully make a living wage, now that makes all kinds of sense to me. What doesn't make sense is for restaurants to not pay even minimum wage in the first place, but that's a different topic.

Just to be a bit contrarian, I think a guide who doesn't charge enough for his service to make a living wage, or what his service is worth, in the first place, is guilty of irrational marketing, or worse.

Sg
 
#70 ·
Just to be a bit contrarian, I think a guide who doesn't charge enough for his service to make a living wage, or what his service is worth, in the first place, is guilty of irrational marketing, or worse.

Sg
guilty as charged... it's hard determining the price to charge. try to remain competitive with other boats and stay busy, or charge what you really need to make a living and lose bookings. it's obvious which end i picked :)

independent guides should charge what they feel is fair, without tips. it's bad business to rely on tips... because many people do not tip or tip very little, which is fine. my clients were a broad mix and some of the most enjoyable to take fishing did not tip.

if a guide gets pissy or won't rebook because you didn't tip enough... you've just been given an opportunity to find a better guide.

if you want to tip, tip... but don't worry that some internet boob might think you didn't tip enough.
 
#68 ·
My question is then. Jeremy (I think your a guide), if someone tips less than 14-15% does this mean that you may not want them as clients again or would you'd be less apt or excited to see the same client again?
I'm just curious. i don't want to dissapoint a guide and have to get another. I think i'd like the same guide to take me out on serveral trips......I don't want to have to keep meeting different pros. seems lame.
B
 
#69 ·
Man this thread is exciting and intimidating at the same time. I'm POOR. I like to fish. I want to learn. I have never taken a multiple day guided trip anwhere (like AK or BC Canada). I have taken two guided day trips which I had to save significantly for. I tipped what must be considered by most to be terribly low. I considered the guide excellent, I learned a lot, the guide really worked hard all day. We fished for steelhead, we caught steelhead, I had a blast, I learned a lot and I tipped him $20 each time. Does that mean that I'm a cheap bastard having saved all year to take a one day fishing trip with a professional service provider who hour by hour makes twice what I do in a day? I'm a service provider of public safety and education. I'm on salary. I control my schedule. I don't make that much money. I freely work evenings and weekends for FREE, no overtime, to assist those who need my services but can't work with me during their normal work day. They don't tip me, I bust my ass for them, I do not expect tips and honestly will never take one for what I do.

If you want $400 for the day, charge that. If you need more like it is apparently mainstream and customary, charge me $450 or $500 up front. That way everyone knows how many of my hard earned duckets are changing hands.

I used the same guide both times and will use him again...maybe...he must know with my meager tip of $20 that I'm a cheap bastard and low life human being. I do agree guides that are independant and those working for companies are two different things. I'm sure those working for big operations get only a portion of the fee, there I'm more inclined to tip higher.
 
#71 ·
I am happy to fish with whoever. Exhorbitant tipper, or not. I love my clients. Some of the coolest people I have met in life have been while standing thigh deep and swinging flies in the last year and a half. I haven't had one I wouldn't take out again with a genuine smile on my face, even if I wasn't tipped.

Not everyone is in the same financial situation in life. Coming from being "the poor kid" growing up, I understand saving up for a long time to afford a guide trip. I truly get it.

I have no preconceived expectations on the subject, and am happily surprised when it happens.
 
#72 ·
I am happy to fish with whoever. Exhorbitant tipper, or not. I love my clients. Some of the coolest people I have met in life have been while standing thigh deep and swinging flies in the last year and a half. I haven't had one I wouldn't take out again with a genuine smile on my face, even if I wasn't tipped.

Not everyone is in the same financial situation in life. Coming from being "the poor kid" growing up, I understand saving up for a long time to afford a guide trip. I truly get it.

I have no preconceived expectations on the subject, and am happily surprised when it happens.
Mumbles just found his next guide. Not because I'm cheap, but because I'm human, raising two young daughters and trying to provide for their futures and still feed my fishing itch. I'll be checking on Jeremy's location and sites. I'm sure there are more guides out there that think tip what you can as a bonus to the fees and others who expect more that the sticker price. I just don't fit those in the latter group as well I guess.
 
#74 ·
I'm gonna be a fishing guide so I can get filthy rich and bang supermodels." :thumb:

That's how I roll.

Let's break down a wage: trip cost=$395
Guide take=$325 - $30 shuttle -$30 lunch- 37 cents a mile and depending on how far you drive, around $50 for fuel - insurence and liscencing and wear and tear on your boat, truck and gear. About another $15.

Now and average day is between 12 and 16 hours when you add all the time it takes to get ready for the trip as well

Do the math Pretty close to minimun wage when you consider all the factors.
 
#75 ·
Interesting mathematical approach to justify tipping...but I'm not convinced. I think tipping is fine, but no to the unaffordable (for me) extreme that others have indicated. I don't paid 37 cents a mile for driving to and from work, driving back on evenings to meet folks who were not available during the normal work day or on weekends when I would rather be with my family, why should we calculate it for the guide? The guide sets the trip plan with the client for where fish are expected to be, and if that means that the guide's office is an hour or two further than his house or where he or she fishes on thier own, well, they choose their office location, right? I also don't get to count my commute time to work or back home from work. I put in more 12 hour days than 8 hour days and more 16 hour days than 10 hour days and I get my salary...the agreed upon wage that I work for. No benefits (I have my own benefits package), no overtime and certainly no tips. I'm not trying to stiff the guiding industry, but you can't justify NEEDING to tip a guide because they need to pay for gas or flies or other stuff. This is what a guide does for a living, or to supplement thier living and I respect that, but such a breakdown of sunk or hidden costs should be included into the guided trip fee, not tacked on afterwards by an "expected or customary" tip.
 
#76 ·
I'm very biased, but who isn't?

Just because you don't agree with a common practice doesn't mean that you are justified in doing the opposite. Yeah, it's probably the most economically intelligent system, but that's just how it's evolved. I'm not too fond of tipping waiters at restuarants, coffee shops, etc, but it's a practice we've seemed to have agreed upon as a society, so I go along and shell out an extra 15%-20% for the service. The same seems to be true for fishing guides (although the % given varies quite a bit more).

Guides, in my experience, do not work any harder for people they believe to be good tippers. And the measure of a successful day is not a large tip for most.

Stop crying about it and give your guide a tip.
 
#79 ·
I spend about 65 hours a week working and no more than 3 or 4 a day in the office. I certanily do drive my own SUV to any neighborhood that requests my presence, to community gathering places and anwhere else where I can meet the folks I need to meet to improve public safety and readiness.

I understand that I'm not the typical guide service user and appreicate this thread to educate me more about how that industry works. I did consider that the set prices pretty much were that way to ensure that the guide got the money s/he needed for their time. I will reassess my approach, but I won't start my tipping for a day trip at $100 like some other clients who may be more financially capable to toss that Franklin to their guide. On my two trips with the same guide I did learn a ton, and for that I paid his fee and tipped him $20. I guess his business was slow so he let me book the second time, he forgot what a cheap bastard I was, or he really did not mind the tip.

All cool info, like many other posts here.
 
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