NFR: No Solution, just dead kids...

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wadin' boot

Donny, you're out of your element...
Ok, here's the problem. This is turning WAY too political. I'm thinking of shutting this down since we keep coming off base. No matter how you choose it, this is a political debate. You are either a liberal or a conservative when you talk about guns (and you can tell who is who usually on their posts).
Jerry it would be a shame to shut down the thread, far as I can tell this is the main and most important and least fun office/christmas/party and other discussion I've heard in the last few days. Sure it needs a political solution but the matters at hand concern domestic terrorism and mental illness. Terrorists don't play by the rules, nor do the mentally ill. These matters are of domestic security and national health. These matters are of vital importance as parents, friends and colleagues to think about, to be aware of and to prepare for in order to prevent this crap happening again. The status quo should disturb everyone, it should make everyone uncomfortable. Some of that disturbance may come out political, as ideas that seem contradictory, some of the tempers are heated, but by and large most of the posts here seem civil and concerned, with far more common ground than division. A lot of us grieve those kids and those teachers in the only way we constructively can, thinking and talking- defining the problem, learning from it and working on proposals to fix it. It would be a shame to shut it down.
 

Lugan

Joe Streamer
The mental health issue was one I hadn't
considered and maybe the biggest reason
for this horror. However the easy access to
weapons, stolen or purchased, seems to make
this problem even worse. The ability for most
anyone to own a gun makes me nervous. I
know people that shouldn't even be out in public
let alone own a dog.
This is well-said Dave. But it just seems hard to construct restrictions that apply only to the people who shouldn't own guns. There are so many guns in circulation. And while the issue certainly includes guns due to their efficient ability to kill large numbers of people, issues like mental illness and more are also wrapped into it. It's complicated. I hope we can solve it thoughtfully.
 
well im back, last one had to vent....NBC has a movie on right now about a man whos daughter was killed in a school shooting, (liberty stands) so he takes an arms dealers wife hostage to promote his gun control stance. he threatens to kill a small boy, shoots a cop, kills the son of an NRA lawyer, forces the women to undress in public, and has her chained to a bomb in a public park, to force her husband to cancel an arms order, and oh by the way, he's using an AR15 platform, who woulda guessed....and the movie is only half way thru.......this is no accident, its NBC's statement. so this is how antigun morons think??? i guess, the end justifies the means....i mean really......wtf!!!!!
 
One close to home not naming names in Skagit county but starts with Z and ends ra, a mental patient the courts seemed fit for a leave and leave he did six dead, thank god they finally sent him to prison, they were worried about the other people at the other institution.
 
"One of the darkest days in American history". -Brian Williams

The NRA has no comment at this time... what a lame organization.

UPDATE QUOTE: "Until the facts are thoroughly known, the NRA will have no comment."

Really? What are they suppose to say? And why are "we" asking them anything? That's like going to Verizon, Apple, AT&T, etc. and asking them to comment on all the people killed in car accidents from folks talking or texting on their cell phones while driving.
 

Lugan

Joe Streamer
I just saw the police report from CT. The entire shooting took place in just 2 minutes, from 9:36-9:38 AM that morning. 26 people murdered in 2 minutes. Anyone doubt that the death toll would have been lower had the weapon been a knife, bomb, or anything other than a semi-auto assault rifle?

That same day in China, a man attacked an elementary school class with a knife, injuring 20 but killing none. I'll bet there would have been many deaths if that attacker had a Bushmaster like the guy in CT.

I have an academic question: How did we as a nation arrive at the collective wisdom that it's a good idea to make semi-auto assault weapons, high-capacity magazines, and ammo designed to explode inside bodies broadly available? Again, this is an academic question because the genie is out of the bottle on this score, and I'm pretty sure we'll need to live with the situation as-is. I just want to know how we got to this point. What was the rationale?
 

GAT

Dumbfounded
Craig, the article made my point and confirms my experience with the problem we have in this country with the mentally ill. They can ban the sale of assault rifles and after this, probably will, but the root cause will remain.

As far as the guns go, I'm a gun owner and always will be. However, I have no desire to own a military style assault rifle and can't imagine I'd ever need one for home protection. Problem is, there are now so many of the weapons available in our society, I'm not sure how you can keep them out of the hands of criminals and the insane even if they are no longer legally sold.

So, I'm back to making sure there are funds available for law enforcement and the mental health profession available so keep some folks off the streets. It doesn't matter if an insane shooter kills one or twenty, the fact that they are out on the streets and can kill anyone must be corrected.
 

freestoneangler

Not to be confused with Freestone
It seems this forum is but a microcosm of our Society. Polarized, opinionated, and disrespectful of one another. In the Bahai writings it tells of the total collapse of society in order to become one universal group that cares about and for each other. I may see that collapse in my life time...

Back to my bitch about hypocrisy:
According to figures provided by MADD, 9,878 drunk driving related deaths in 2011, 92 in Connecticut alone almost 4 times the number in the school shooting. No one speaks at all about banning alcohol or cars.

According to the CDC smoking causes about 443,000 deaths per year, and an estimated 49,000 of these smoking-related deaths are the result of secondhand smoke exposure. No call for banning cigarettes, pipes, or cigars.

But you say "guns are different..." and I ask "are the other people any less dead?"

Guns are visceral, they evoke fear in many and sporting pleasure for others. It's so easy to jump on the bandwagon against guns because they are so visceral, flashy, emotionally charging. But how many have seen a body mangled beyond recognition in a twisted pile of steel or watched someone gasp for their last breaths? It's all death. It's all because someone made a f*****g stupid decision.

So, should the many be punished by the actions of the few? I'm a responsible gun owner who is still waiting for a "rational discussion" about "gun control". I don't see that happening here. Do you really care about saving people from death or just banning guns?
Roper -- you obliterated the target center. One minor, very recent detail you failed to mention however, which is particulaly close to home, is the hypocrisy of WA state's general funds being used for anti-smoking ads, but now finding it perfectly fine to leaglize maryjane...perhaps wadingboot has a graph that can rationalize this as well :)
 

freestoneangler

Not to be confused with Freestone
Ok, here's the problem. This is turning WAY too political. I'm thinking of shutting this down since we keep coming off base. No matter how you choose it, this is a political debate. You are either a liberal or a conservative when you talk about guns (and you can tell who is who usually on their posts).
Way off the mark on this one Jerry. I know a couple of co-workers who are self proclaimned, raging liberals, with whom I have gone target shooting. We even have heated political debate while firing live ammo and I never once felt threatened about them turning on me... wow, how lucky was that! As much as we disagree on just about everything else, these two will surely defend 2nd ammendment rights.

Besides, if we elimnate the political debate on guns, it will just be replaced with hatchery vs. native, the Ford vs. Chevy, or the Sage vs. Loomis... we can't help ourselves... we're mere mortal men (and women).
 

Grayone

Fishin' to the end, Oc.P
So much has changed over the last 40 years....Society has changed for the worse. To much lack of respect for others or authority.............We have become an amoral society.....It's time to become a moral society again, but my fear is we have moved past that option. We have way to many enablers now and very little accountability. Sad.
 
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