NFR A Guardian Teacher Law

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Brad Soliday, Dec 18, 2012.

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  1. speyfisher

    speyfisher Active Member

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    Democracy? Republic? Please elabor...zzzzzzzzzz.

    Well, since you obviously do not understand the difference, I'll spell it out for you.
    Democracy: Majority rules. Plain & simple. Look it up in the dictionary. Which means if 51% of the population votes that they don't like you, or me, and want to make sure there will be no more of us in the future, they can mandate we get fixed.
    Republic: Bound by a set of laws. We call ours the Constitution. Kapeesh?

    There is a difference, albeit maybe not much, between watching violence and participating in it by killing all the bad guys in a video game. And btw: they all get up right after you kill them and keep on fighting. Right? Now you & I know that if you kill someone, they don't get back up. But does a four or five year old really know the difference?

    Anyone who feels life is better, for whatever reason, in some other country, is free to relocate.

    There is something wrong with (our) society. There must be reasons why we keep having mass murders like this. But until we get to the place where we are willing to discuss all the issues, rather than looking for a quick fix, these psycho's will continue too find ways to wreak havoc. No one is born a psycho. So how do they get that way? And this latest one didn't go down to Sportsman's Warehouse and buy his guns. He murdered the owner, and stole them. As far as I know, murder and theft have been against the law since Moses came down off the mountain. The law did not seem to have any effect on this guy.
     
  2. Jamie Wilson

    Jamie Wilson Active Member

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    Cops in schools - Resource Officers - were one of the first cuts on the block, remember?
     
  3. Jason Rolfe

    Jason Rolfe Wanderer

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    Speyfisher,

    Completely agree with everything you just said.

    I do understand the difference between democracy and republic--I just didn't think it had as much relevance here--just my opinion.

    But you're right--no one is born a psycho. They end up that way, somehow. Perhaps some of them end up that way because their parents allow them to play violent video games when they are 6 or 7 years old; I absolutely agree that that is wrong and is a problem. Is the solution to ban violent video games--I don't think so.

    We obviously disagree on a lot, and that's fine. I respect your beliefs about guns, and definitely respect your right to own, appreciate, and enjoy them.

    I think video games are a very similar thing--people care about them and love them for basically the same reasons that you care about guns.

    So, I just think it would be good to step back and look at it from that perspective.

    Best,

    Jason
     
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  4. seasel

    seasel New Member

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    A few responses to the rationale posted:
    I agree that something should be done. I disagree that schools are the ones to do it.
    1. Our schools have proven the most vulnerable targets in our society for the violence of demented minds.
    No, by far the most vulnerable children in our society are the ones not in school. Pushers and pimps like the kids in schools, but they love the kids who have dropped out.

    As a society we have no more precious treasure than our children, yet we guard armored trucks better than our schools.
    Yes, for the very few minutes of exchange at a specific place of business. However, providing armored truck security throughout a school day, and afternoon with activities, and weekends with more activities would be impossible, even with unlimited funding.

    2. The cost of having full time protection from police officers or trained and armed security guards is more than most districts can afford.
    Agreed, but with one qualification: every school has full time protection, just as every residence and individual has full time protection, after calling 911. Of course harm can and does occur before help arrives, but there is one level of full time protection already provided.

    3. Regardless of anyone’s position on gun control legislation or the passage of future gun control laws, it is likely that these acts of insanity will plague our society well into the future. A Guardian Teacher law could make our schools safer in a matter of weeks (if passed).
    Completely disagree for two reasons. 1) Gun rights supporters tend to point out that outlawing guns would be pointless because people bent on doing harm would just use other means. If every school were armed to repel a gun attack, why wouldn’t an attacker simply use other means? And 2) increasing the number of weapons on a campus increases the potential for a weapon to be misused, either by its owner or by someone who takes it from the owner.

    4. The mere knowledge that Guardian Teachers are present in a school may dissuade potential attacks.
    Completely disagree. A rational thought process would simply lead an attacker to use other means, as noted above. An irrational, deranged thought process is impossible to predict.

    5. There seems to be an ever increasing number of disturbed people who view our children as targets. As there are wolves in our world, let us put Guardians among the lambs.
    It does seem that “an ever increasing number of disturbed people… view our children as targets.” However, as noted in point one, people targeting kids for nefarious purposes have been present forever. In addition, dividing the number of schools attacked over the last few years by the number not attacked yields a very, very small fraction.
    I agree that something should be done. I disagree that schools are the ones to do it
     
  5. fifafu

    fifafu Guest

    I'm not sure all of you guys understand what these "video games" can do to young minds. This is a game named Call of Duty(Modern Warfare 2) which I believe is one of the biggest video game releases of all time. In this scene you are a CIA agent working deep cover in Russia. At the end of the scene you will be executed and then blamed for the massacre which starts WW3.

    To deny this game wouldn't warp the young or weak minds is just naive.

    Warning this scene is graphic and disturbing.
     
  6. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

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    I don't agree with this statement in the least bit. The human psyche is governed both by genetic code and experiences. It is not implausible that errors in the genetic code can lead to psychological defects just as easily as they can lead to physical defects. Down syndrome, aspbergers, bipolar disorder, all have huge genetic components if not entirely related to genetic defects.
    Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2
     
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  7. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    I can' t believe it. I am watching the news and the report is that the powers that be are now willing to discuss gun control, violent video games, and mental health issues. Someone must be reading this forum besides a bunch of overly active fly fishermen.
     
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  8. Dave Alberts

    Dave Alberts Active Member

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    Actually that "he" justice was a "she" justice, as in R. B. Ginsberg... spoken in Egypt I believe... not one of her better moments, IMO.
     
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  9. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

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    Dead on Reverend Roper. Disarming Americans is the worst possible outcome. I can see restrictions on certain assault style weapons, and high capacity magazines, but all guns could only lead to disaster. It's funny Japan was brought into this discussion. They were poised to invade our West coast during the peak of WWII. The only thing that made them hesitate was the amount of resistance they feared from the average American household. They envisioned every American armed, and ready to defend themselves and their country. And they would have been mostly correct. I hope that never changes. And you're right about if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.
     
  10. Derek Day

    Derek Day Rockyday

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    I'm curious about what the gun rights folks think they've given up? The Supreme Court had thrown out nearly every attempt to regulate guns. Are you upset about not having access to full auto weapons? Grenade launchers? I'm actually really curious what the percieved "conscessions" are.

    The second amendment was important when it was written. It's outdated and unrealistic. It was designed to arm the populace should the British try and retake their colonies or the federal government get out of control. It was intended to put state of the art tools of war in every household (rifles/muskets), do create a diffuse military that couldn't be easily controlled by a tyrant. Now it's more about individuals and personal protection. If we were to actually take a constructionist view of the second amendment, we would have state of the art weaponry in every household--no holds barred, and I don't think that anyone (I could be wrong) thinks that's reasonable.

    I was really struck by a fact from the recent Colorado theater shootings. The only person who had any sense that there was something wrong with James Holmes was the local gun club president/range supervisor. The thing to remember is, that we are trying to keep the guns out of the hands of unstable people. It's not the guns that kill people. It's not people with normal coping skills that kill people. It's people with underdeveloped coping skills who kill people, and guns make them much more efficient killing mechanisms. I think that there is an opportunity for local organizations, I say gun clubs, to screen people for permits. If you're going to regulate this, put it in the hands of people who care about, respect and understand guns. If it had been up to the local gun club president in the Colorado case, James Holmes woudn't have been able to aquire a gun. I just think there is an opportunity to take a community based approach, we need there to be somewhere where someone can throw up a red flag and say "I'm not sure this person should have access to a weapon". Not deny a permit per-se but maybe be a stoppong point along the road to aquiring a weapon, where someone might be able to recognize a potential problem. The answer isn't a stricter ban, it's getting the community involved in preventing gun ownership by unstable people.
     
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  11. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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  12. EHB86

    EHB86 Member

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    I kind of hate to wade into this, but I can't help myself. First let me say, I am a gun owner, shooting enthusiast, sometime hunter, etc. I have had a concealed carry permit for almost forty years and I carry quite a lot. But I don't understand why so many of my gun owning aquaintances and friends immediately jump to the idea that someone is going to come and take all their guns as soon as the words "gun control" are uttered.

    "Gun control" may mean no sales without using a Federal Firearms dealer to do a sale/transfer. Or it may mean no sales to felons, or drug addicts, or mentally disturbed people. It might mean laws to require people to either have their firearms in their possession and control or locked in a safe (heaven forbid). Or it might mean no sales of fully automatic weapons (as it has in most states for many, many years), or maybe no 30 round magazines. Big deal.

    What it does not mean is that someone is going to come take your guns. It isn't going to happen and the NRA needs to quit contantly trying to scare gun owners into donating more and more money to them to perpetuate this kind of thinking. The NRA milks every member as thoroughly as possible to perpetuate their business model by trying to convince people that the next step is confiscation. It's a load of crap. There is room for responsible gun owners to come to the table with Law Enforcement, mental health professionals and other concerned parties and come up with some small steps that just might keep a gun out of the hands of someone that shouldn't have one and still maintain our second amendment rights and the right to carry.

    Sorry to get off topic.

    As for the OP, I'd at least like to talk about the Guardian Teacher idea, or an officer in all schools, or metal detectors, there are a number of possibilities. But, here's another hot button, it's going to take some tax dollars. I for one am willing to pony up to do something to help keep my kids, your kids and our grandkids safe.
     
  13. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    When you don't want to be the soft target, harden the target. There are many ways to affect such a change, and some mentioned here seem to have considerable merit. Safety of our children should NOT be about dollars and cents, it should be about access control and common sense.
     
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  14. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    BACK ON THE SOAP BOX, AGAIN. There are many of us who have children in schools or family in schools. I substitute now that I am retired and my wife and daughter are full time teachers. I for one am willing to pony up the dollars. I taught in a school with a full time resource officer and he was busy all the time but you and I, so to speak, are not the only voters. I have never voted against a school bond or levy, knowing that my own kids benefited from previous thoughtful voters and that the major judge of a community is its school system. But, there are lots of people out there that refuse to recognize the value of safe and civil schools and since their own children are out, they look at bonds, levies, and taxes as someone else's burden since they have completed their duty.

    We are lucky to have a forum like this and moderators that allow us to go off topic because it is current and important. Thanks to them for allowing us to vent on the Newtown incident and other things like Guardian Teachers, Gun Control, Video Games, Police protection, etc., etc. What I would admonish all of you to do is to go into your neighborhood schools for more than a few minutes and take a look around. See what is and is not happening. Get your neighbors to do the same. TAlk with the administrators and ask what you can do to help. It may be as little as slowing down in a school zone or as much as becoming a volunteer to help out a distressed child or overloaded teacher. Once you get the lay of the land, you will have a better idea of what needs to be done.

    Thanks to all of you who have expressed your views and suggestions. It's a start and now we have to do better to make a viable change. God bless our children.
     
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  15. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    A Chomsky reference, might be a first on this board, I like it. Very well stated by the way.
     
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