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A Sea Run's eating habits

6K views 45 replies 16 participants last post by  kelvin 
#1 ·
I have caught Sea Runs on alot of different flies and I have my favorites.
Has anyone every tried a small crab pattern and had luck with it ?
Do Sea Runs eat crabs?

When I was a kid we use to catch them in Lake Washington and they were always full of Crawfish
(yes we use to eat them)

Made me wonder looking at some nicely tied bonefish flies.

Perhaps an dumb question but one I had to ask?

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#4 ·
#8 ·
I've always heard that the immature stages of crabs were what was on the menu, but I never really pursued it.
Maybe it's worth trying a few size 24's... I have a feeling some of the smaller stages are pretty close to that size?
Way to think outside the box Kelvin, might be worth it.
 
#9 ·
I've always heard that the immature stages of crabs were what was on the menu, but I never really pursued it.
Maybe it's worth trying a few size 24's... I have a feeling some of the smaller stages are pretty close to that size?
Way to think outside the box Kelvin, might be worth it.
Thanks

Might be outside the box but still not sure the fly would would any better than a Squimp, Popcycle Stick, or a Faltwing

I would think given crab spawn there must be some time of the year the imature stags are more abundant in the water

Going to tie up a few anyway I am sure they will work for Rezzies

Arthropod Insect Organism Decapoda Pest
 
#10 ·
I doubt searuns would target adult crabs like a bonefish pattern immitates but will target the immatures. Adult crabs are usually tight to the bottom and not easily available but the earlier stages are midwater swimmers AFAIK. When cleaning salmon I have never noticed an adult crab in there but have seen fish and shrimp so I would expect similar for searuns. Rockfish and greenling on the other hand often have more crabs than anything else.

Even in FL with all kinds of crabs including some species that happily swim around on the surface, (happy till they meet a permit anyway!) adult crab patterns are rarely used unless sight fishing in shallow water.
 
#11 ·
I guess that's the questions we need to ask, if they are more abundant at any specific time of the year, do they swim around or walk in the muck on the bottom and what sizes are most common. I'm sure someone on here knows these things.

Kelvin, I like your Crab Megalops picture, I'm sure your fly will look just like that and with the very same movement.:)
 
#17 ·
View attachment 23285
I guess that's the questions we need to ask, if they are more abundant at any specific time of the year, do they swim around or walk in the muck on the bottom and what sizes are most common. I'm sure someone on here knows these things.

Kelvin, I like your Crab Megalops picture, I'm sure your fly will look just like that and with the very same movement.:)
Hand Insect Arthropod Finger Thumb


pretty close
 
#13 ·
Excerpt from Fly Fishing Inshore Saltwaters for Pacific Salmon by Richard Stoll

"Of particular importance to pre-migration juvenile Coho salmon are the free-swimming megalops larvae of the Dungeness crab. Megalops larvae occur in very large numbers in northern salt waters from the spring to fall. They range in the water column from the surface to 75 feet deep, mostly depending on the time of day. Fisheries biologists have postulated that in some years juvenile Coho can feed so heavily on these larvae as to affect adult crab populations in future years."

Thought this was pretty relevant considering the thread. If the Coho are feeding that heavily on megalops larvae, there is no way the Cutthroat aren't. I think you're right Kelvin, probably a good pattern to have in the box. Stoll developed his Green Weenie as an imitation of the megalops larvae, and he swears by it. I've got a dozen of them tied up in UV chartruese, white, and pink for Coho last year, I'll have to start fishing them for summer cutts. Could be interesting.
 
#15 ·
I'm currently reading Chester Allen's book "Fly Fishing for Sea-Run Cutthroat" and he does talk about cutts feeding on immature crabs.

FWIW, I quote:

"I often see cutts noodling around in shallow water - right near the shoreline- during the rising tide. These trout look like bonefish as they scout and scoot for tiny shrimp and crabs that pop up from under the gravel when the rising tide covers the beach.

....These trout are very spooky, so you have to stay on your knees and cast a small, buggy fly, such as a scud fly, a size 10 or 12 Crazy Charlie, or a McLaughlin Euphausiid, and let it settle to bottom. Then you wait. When the trout finally swims within 2 feet or so of where you think the fly is, strip in the fly with short, sharp, 6-inch-long pulls on the line.

...Cutts move to little shrimp and crabs all year long."

Obviously, YMMV! :)
 
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#16 ·
Nice tie Kelvin. I'd give that a try for sure.
I agree with Don in regards if it moves it could possibly be food. I don't think I'd underestimate what they might eat due to their aggressive nature.
 
#24 ·
The megalops stage crab fly patterns that I have used,(sorry no picture), have been size #10 or #12 or even #14 to #16, (closer to actual size But still huge compared to the naturals), tied on shrimp/scud hooks, very, very sparse. I use mono eyes, either store bought or home burned mono tips, about 1/8" to 1/16" diameter. If anything I like the eyes to be a little "overstated" or abnormally large. Even at 1/16" your mono eyes will be larger than the real ones. And I will wrap a thread base on the hook, from behind the eye to well into the bend, and then tie in one frond of CDC, grey or tan, at the "tail". And then wrap the thread to behind the eye again. Then I will tie in two light tan or grey CDC fronds, in much the same manner we would tie in calf tail hair, as stand up, split wings for a Wulff type dry fly. I set these CDC "wings" very close to the eye of the hook, at 90 degree sideways angles to the hook. A variation in this is to use a very sparse, thin dubbing, such as possum. I like it with dubbing. But it has to be impossibly sparse. This is a matter of creating a ghostly, impressionistic, translucent fly, rather than a full bodied opaque fly.

If you look at the megalops stage crabs in the water, in a natural setting, often they are barely visible as individuals. Once they group up they appear as "clouds" or groups of greyish or beige colored "swimmers", though they are not very fast. You can be looking right at them and miss them. Larger pocket estuaries, tide pools, lagoons, near shore shallows, places with warmer and more plankton rich water etc, can hold huge numbers of these crab juveniles in early to mid summer. And every fish and bird will eat them. Even on a size 16 to 18 hook your imitation will be bigger than the naturals. But it will work, usually on lighter tippet, a 5x or 6x, and dead drifted. I have seen some interesting patterns that were simply a bit of glue gun glue, spread along the hook shank, and a pair of mono eyes, on very small dry fly or shrimp/scud hooks. I do like scud flies, size 12 through 16, in an ash, grey or olive color. And these can double for gamarid amphipods, or "Beach Hoppers", very nicely. We see Cutthroat feeding at the edges for these very commonplace small crustaceans as well.

I have no doubt that crabs in the soft shell state, at any stage of life, would be easy prey for Cutthroat.

my blog: http://olympicpeninsulaflyfishing.blogspot.com
 
#25 ·
Bob great info
any chance you can post a picture of your megalops?
ant particular time of year you find they work better?

The megalops stage crab fly patterns that I have used,(sorry no picture), have been size #10 or #12 or even #14 to #16, (closer to actual size But still huge compared to the naturals), tied on shrimp/scud hooks, very, very sparse. I use mono eyes, either store bought or home burned mono tips, about 1/8" to 1/16" diameter. If anything I like the eyes to be a little "overstated" or abnormally large. Even at 1/16" your mono eyes will be larger than the real ones. And I will wrap a thread base on the hook, from behind the eye to well into the bend, and then tie in one frond of CDC, grey or tan, at the "tail". And then wrap the thread to behind the eye again. Then I will tie in two light tan or grey CDC fronds, in much the same manner we would tie in calf tail hair, as stand up, split wings for a Wulff type dry fly. I set these CDC "wings" very close to the eye of the hook, at 90 degree sideways angles to the hook. A variation in this is to use a very sparse, thin dubbing, such as possum. I like it with dubbing. But it has to be impossibly sparse. This is a matter of creating a ghostly, impressionistic, translucent fly, rather than a full bodied opaque fly.

If you look at the megalops stage crabs in the water, in a natural setting, often they are barely visible as individuals. Once they group up they appear as "clouds" or groups of greyish or beige colored "swimmers", though they are not very fast. You can be looking right at them and miss them. Larger pocket estuaries, tide pools, lagoons, near shore shallows, places with warmer and more plankton rich water etc, can hold huge numbers of these crab juveniles in early to mid summer. And every fish and bird will eat them. Even on a size 16 to 18 hook your imitation will be bigger than the naturals. But it will work, usually on lighter tippet, a 5x or 6x, and dead drifted. I have seen some interesting patterns that were simply a bit of glue gun glue, spread along the hook shank, and a pair of mono eyes, on very small dry fly or shrimp/scud hooks. I do like scud flies, size 12 through 16, in an ash, grey or olive color. And these can double for gamarid amphipods, or "Beach Hoppers", very nicely. We see Cutthroat feeding at the edges for these very commonplace small crustaceans as well.

I have no doubt that crabs in the soft shell state, at any stage of life, would be easy prey for Cutthroat.

my blog: http://olympicpeninsulaflyfishing.blogspot.com
 
#32 ·
Excerpt from Fly Fishing Inshore Saltwaters for Pacific Salmon by Richard Stoll

"Of particular importance to pre-migration juvenile Coho salmon are the free-swimming megalops larvae of the Dungeness crab. Megalops larvae occur in very large numbers in northern salt waters from the spring to fall. They range in the water column from the surface to 75 feet deep, mostly depending on the time of day. Fisheries biologists have postulated that in some years juvenile Coho can feed so heavily on these larvae as to affect adult crab populations in future years."

Thought this was a pretty relevant considering the thread. If the Coho are feeding that heavily on megalops larvae, there is no way the Cutthroat aren't. I think you're right Kelvin, probably a good pattern to have in the box. Stoll developed his Green Weenie as an imitation of the megalops larvae, and he swears by it. I've got a dozen of them tied up in UV chartruese, white, and pink for Coho last year, I'll have to start fishing them for summer cutts. Could be interesting.
I agree with Steve here. I just picked up Richards book and it has some excellent information and patterns worth checking out.
 
#34 ·
Hmmm. I am wondering if you could indicator dead drift a somewhat similar pattern in moving water and have any luck? I will hopefully be trying it this weekend.

Also a question for everyone, when do the chum fry enter the sound? As early as late Feb or early March?
Using an indicator for dead driftinga a crab pattern should work. In the past I used an indicator to dead drift an amphipod pattern with success when a school of resident coho is feeding on the surface when eating amphipods.

Oct.(early run timing) spawning chum normally have their fry start outmigrating by mid-March. While Nov.(normal run timing) spawning chum have their fry normally start outmigrating by early April or a little later.

Roger
 
#36 ·
If I really believed that was the requirement for the BEST fly I would have said so. Don't put words in my mouth.

By the way, some of the best cutthroat fishermen I know, who've been doing it for 50+ years use nothing but an olive wooly bugger, catch more fish than you or I, and can't understand the mania to match the hatch for one of the most opportunistic feeders in the sound.
Fair enough I should have used "one" instead of "you" as I was just raising the question: if a cutthroat only uses movement and size to determine prey why would one use anything but the simplest fly with a retrieve that keeps the fly in the zone the longest?

I fully agree they are very opportunistic and I will happily use the same fly all day unless I'm making great casts to working fish and getting rejected more than a couple of times. Then I'm changing flies and it's not going to be to an adult crab fly. :)
 
#41 ·
: if a cutthroat only uses movement and size to determine prey why would one use anything but the simplest fly with a retrieve that keeps the fly in the zone the longest?
:)
Who said cutthroat only use size and movement to determine prey? Not me.

Two of the major food sources for cutthroat (per study by Dr. Joe Jacquet, not anecdotal evidence read here) are clam necks and salmonid eggs.
 
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