Advanced Indicator Rig Instructional Video

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Jason Cotta, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    Gill nets? no, but snagging fish with a bead rig is more detrimental to our wild fish than many other methods. especially tight line presentations. just because we cant stop the gillnets, doesn't mean we shouldnt protect the fish that do make it past them.

    yes, i'd rather see gill nets outlawed, than beads, bait, and barbed treble hooks, but i doubt that will happen in my lifetime. so, why not focus on things that we have a chance of changing?

    you are missing the point. you and i cant stop the gill nets, but we can limit our impact by using more ethical, less harmful methods. and if regulations only allowed less harmful methods, that are also less effective, and reduce human contact, wdfw would be protecting wild fish better than allowing all those methods, then shutting down the river for the rest of the season.

    yes, your rig puts more fish in hand than mine. do you NEED to catch more fish? i wouldnt fish for steelhead if i really NEEDED to catch fish. if i really just cared about catching any kind of fish, i wouldnt use flies, i'd use bait, and i wouldnt use my fly rod, and call it flyfishing. if you need to feed your family, your money will be better spent at the grocery store. afterall, you cant use food stamps at the bait and bead shops.

    its too bad more people cant find a better reason to fish, than just catching the most fish possible.
     
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  2. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

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    Ack, sorry Jason, I think I was the first to mention gear on here. As for method, there is only one way to stop impact on wild steelhead, and that is don't fish for them. Until you are ready to do that, stop judging other people's legal methods and what they call it. This debate is done, worn out, and ridiculously old!
     
  3. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Concern about the impact of steelhead mortality from C&R is just dumb. There is no impact worth fighting about. The fish live nearly always and are a whole lot more rugged than most give them credit for. Outlawing specific gear types for the purpose of conservation just does not make sense.

    Bobber/lead shot fishing is gear fishing. Plain and simple. If that's offensive, then that's a you probem and not my problem. When I fish gear, I am in no way embarrassed by it. I don't know why people get so offended when it's pointed out to them that they are fishing gear. It is what it is. Own it.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
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  4. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!

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    "Concern about the impact of steelhead mortality from C&R is just dumb. There is no impact worth fighting about. The fish live nearly always and are a whole lot more rugged than most give them credit for. Outlawing specific gear types for the purpose of conservation just does not make sense."

    Please provide data or studies relevant to wild winter Steelhead catch & release fishing impacts here. In my experience, the more aggressively that we fish, the more directly that we impact the fishery with more aggressive tackle and methods, in an attempt to assure that we can hook more fish, and the more fish that we catch doing so, the more risk we pose to wild Steelhead. Using these rigs is merely gear fishing with a fly rod. "It is what it is" indeed. Maybe fine for eradicating the pestilence of hatchery fish. But hardly a responsible conservation oriented method of wild Steelhead management.
     
  5. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Bob,

    Vedder and Hooten are the 2 I have read. It's pretty darned clear as I see it. I'm sure the Vedder study is winter fish, I dont recall Hotten on the top of my head.

    Winter steelhead, especially on the OP suffer from poor management not C&R mortality. People have been up in arms recently when the Hoh missed escapement, again. It missed by a couple hundred fish or less. In the states eyes that is a success, because the goal is to have every fish above minimum escapement harvested. That's the problem. If every fish that missed the nets was caught and we called the C&R mortality 5% (a high number IMO) then we C&R guys killed 100-150 fish. Hell that's within the realm of standard sampling error in estimating the actual escapement.

    Let's fight amongst ourselves over very few mortalities though. It's far easier than trying to change the management paradigm.

    Heres a thought, how about trying to find a way to chalenge foregone oppertunity in court. It sure would be nice to be able to try and raise money from the nymphers to do that. They have jobs and bank accounts too. That would be a first step in actually getting more adults on the gravel and not 150 or 200 fish either.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
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  6. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

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    We are all gear fisherman then. I guess we all have to live with that. I am curious though Charles why you care what other people call how they fish? No, honestly why do you feel the need to call Jason gear fisherman if your not offended by the term? The logic of it breaks down for me. Is it just a state definition of fly fishing you go with, or is it some other need you have.
     
  7. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Ira,

    It came up in the conversation. Also, I did not called anyone a gear fisherman. I stated that bobber and lead are gear fishing. I'm not calling names here. I also can't be responsable for other peoples sensativity.

    The only need here is for basic truthfulness. Like I said, it is what it is. I have seen anglers go through some crazy contortions to bend gear fishing into flyfishing and it baffles me. Hell, I have tried myself, until I stepped back and asked myself why?

    Fish how you would like. I'll stand up for your right/ privaledge to do so regardless of gear types. I think that is more important.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
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  8. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    steelheaders should just take a page from northwest saltwater fly fishing, where the industry has embraced gear fishing and calling it fly fishing. shortcut fly fishing has won and we need to just accept it.....

    or not ;)
     
  9. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

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    Thanks Charles, you didn't really answer the question, but I appreciate your defense of the way I choose to fish (with indicators and nymphs). Now the semantics are interesting, so telling someone that they are using gear to fish is not the same as calling them a gear fisherman. Feel free to call me whatever you like, or Jason for that matter, I won't be offended, I just dont understand your need to do so if you don't care, knowing that it does bother others. I'm with you on the fact that no one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but I generally don't attempt to test the theory.

    Now again, when does it become gear fishing? If the fisher for me could not throw the same rig effectively with a spinning rod and non-fly line, why call it gear fishing? This indicator rig that Jason describes could not be thrown with a traditional spinning rod without major modifications, therefore I don't buy your premise that is a fact that is "gear" fishing.
     
  10. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    when the sage xp came out it was a favorite of the centerpin crowd up in b.c. were they fly fishing?

    interestingly no one who fished gear cared..but when not fly fishing I guess it does...
     
  11. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Ira,

    Doncha' remember, there is no LEAD in fly fishing. Fly fishing = rods made of split cane or greenheart, reels made in England, lines of silk, leaders and tippets of natural gut, flies tied on steel hooks with natural feathers, fur, wool, silk, and no synthetic materials whatever. Veer from that, and you're just a mouth-breathin', knuckle-draggin', bait chucker. That's the gospel of Walton, Gordon, Hues, Halford, etc., ya' know, the guys who invented modern fly fishing.

    Sg
     
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  12. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    I want to make this perfectly clear: I did not call you anything. Nothing. Saying that fishing with lead shot and a bobber is gear fishing is not a personal statement about you. Christ, If you have an opinion anymore, you can't tell anyone or someones gonna take it personal.

    As far as you questions- it ceased being flyfishing when you used lead shot and a bobber. Weighted flies can be debated but Jesus, a bobber? And your just wrong regarding throwing a bobber with a spinning reel. I've done it. It works. It works well. Hell, as a child I used worms and no weight on a spinning real to catch brookies. You would use the mono that would lay on the water as an indicator. It was not flyfishing. I caught a lot of fish that way.

    Clearly, you and I disagree about whether nymphing with lead and a bobber is flyfishing. It can be a fine and easy discussion if you keep from telling me that I'm calling you or anyone else anything. It isn't a personal attack, it's a damn opinion (and the correct one). The fact that it bothers others is really their problem. I shouldn't have to change an opinion because having it bothers someone. It bothers the hell out of me that people are Yankee fans. I also know it'd be damn boring if everyone wasa Red Sox fan. Although it would show that public shools were improving :).

    Oh, and I care about whether it's flyfishing for the same reason you care that it is, in all likelyhood. That reason is...it's my opinion.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
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  13. Chris DeLeone

    Chris DeLeone Active Member

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    Charles please stop calling it a bobber - thats rude in my opinion and your hurting feelings on the board. Please refer to it as an "indicator" that kind of compromise will make many more on the board feel better about their method of fishing
     
  14. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

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    Charles, I didn't say that you called me anything, man you got your panties in a bunch quite a bit for a guy who claims offense is in the eye of the beholder. By the way, did you read my part where I say the set up mentioned? That is not a bobber, it is a thingamabobber, get your facts as you call them right for crist sake.

    So to you any indicator and weighted anything is gear fishing, and your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong? Did I read that correctly? If so I really don't care about your opinion anymore cause your just plain loony. If I read it wrong, please clarify.
     
  15. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    "Feel free to call me whatever you like, or Jason for that matter, I won't be offended, I just dont understand your need to do so if you don't care, knowing that it does bother others." Much of my last post was in response to this.

    I would say that bobber and split shot are gear, every time, all the time. And having seen anglers use both with spinning reels and noodle rods in GL trib.'s I'll tell you, they are effective.

    I would not hold an opinion if I thought it was incorrect. That would be dumb.

    My panties are fine. My head hurts though. I feel a bit like Lewis Black, truthfully.

    The whole argument about what is gear/ fly fishing is like the supreme court obsenity ruling. It's hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

    Go Sox,
    cds