advice for scandi casting.

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. mike kinney

    mike kinney Member

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    I don't know about all the rods out there but the meiser and tfo rods that I have had a part in seem to work fine as long as you open up the stroke a little. One thing you have to adjust for is line weight because the American rods that have a fuller flex tend to take at least two lines heavier. MK
     
  2. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Thanks Mike,
    Much appreciated!

    Mark
     
  3. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Mr Kinney's response brings up a good point not only for Yuhina but for Pan's original question which I'd like to throw in here.
    It seems like there's an expectation that we can use our PNW style rods to accomplish classic underhanding casts, and then we're surprised to find they're too slow. Then we're disappointed to find we have to modify the cast away from the very abbreviated, very bottom hand dominant underhand style to get the cast out. But that's what the rod asks for, as Mike pointed out.
    To use a really compact underhand stroke I think you need a real underhanding rod- Meiser S rod, Guideline LeCie or LPXe, Loomis Stinger, Sage Euro, Echos with the quick tip...you know, rods built for that. Otherwise you're driving 16d nails with the heel of a dress shoe, it works but not well. That's been my experience with it so far, anyway.
    The alternative is to modify the casting stroke to accommodate, or seriously underline the rod to make it more snappy.
    BTW, Modern Scandi is quite popular in Europe and has largely replaced pure Andersson style Underhanding in Europe I hear- and Modern Scandi uses a more open stroke, open to the point that it's more similar to longbelly technique than it is to underhanding, at least in certain variations. Shooting head casting has sure come a long way, fascinating stuff!
     
  4. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

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    Hi Speyspaz,
    Still slightly different in most of Europe,
    (Modern Scandi is quite popular in Europe and has largely replaced pure Andersson style Underhanding in Europe I hear-)
    Scandi style speycasting is still such a small market in most of Europe, Traditional style Speycasting makes up almost all the market, because of this companies like Airflo don't even market there Scandi lines and shooting head kits in the UK because of the lack of demand.
    Gordon.
     
  5. DRBfish

    DRBfish New Member

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    I don't think scandi is casting off of the tip. Cast a Guideline rod and it bends down to the cork. I think casting off the tip is a misconseption.
     
  6. SSPey

    SSPey Member

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    casting off the tip - doesn't matter what kind of line or technique you are using - is inherently limited in its ability to generate power. Fly rods store and release maximum power where there is maximum material - down the blank. You want to load the rod towards the butt to access that power, and that's exactly what a dominant lower hand stroke does. On the rod, it helps to a strong and fast enough tip to direct that released power accurately. The tip is directing the path of travel, but the power comes from deeper
     
  7. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Couple things I've noticed and may help (as I'm in the same boat when switching over for summer steelies)....Mieser mks rods and guideline lines rock...guideline is so far ahead with their lines IMHO it's stupid...

    That said...skagit is a compact cast and like has been said, you have to "open up" your cast a bit...I also found lifting the rod tip up and bringing is around more like a cocktail glass configuration...i.e. rod tip up in front of you and around smoothly helps over what we normally do with our skagit lines...No pause on the front cast..this is a mother as it takes some time to get used to not rushing it or waiting to long...

    Have patience...I know I was getting aggravated at my ineptness but the more pissed off you get the harder you try to throw it and the worse it turns out...I try to think of painting the cast..

    (See if I can insert this vid. of my buddy Tim casting my 11'7" Mieser switch rod with my scandi head on it...)
     
  8. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Lets see if this one works better...Again, this is on a 11'7 switch rod...almost all the 100' running line..couple strips left but the water was catching it too much..should see what the prick can do with a normal rod...Watching Mike and Tim makes you really appreciate the "art" of spey casting..
     
  9. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Thanks for clarifying that, Gordon. I think what I was getting at is, in the shooting head arena, that Modern has largely replaced pure underhanding. Most Americans, myself included till recently, thought underhanding was the only way shooting heads are cast...not so!
    regards and thanks again,
    Bob
     
  10. Ian Broadie

    Ian Broadie Flyfishing is so "Metal"

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    Jinkies that's some right fine casting :beer2:
     
  11. DRBfish

    DRBfish New Member

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    Skagit is shooting heads, the whole NW thing is based on shooting heads. Read Mr. Lingren's history of NW Spey casting. Most Americans may like to use the marketing terms but it is all shooting heads.
     
  12. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

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    Hi Guys,
    I think at times it gets over complicated for new Speycasters, or at least it seems that way.
    I am lucky enough to work on the River Spey and have also taught Speycasting in the USA and Canada, it is 22 yrs now since i started teaching flycasting full time.... must be getting old. :)
    I like all styles of Speycasting, but like it simple......like me, Underhand, Scandi, skagit Traditional, modern the list goes on and on, it must be really confusing for a new Speycaster.
    I get asked while teaching, should i get a Scandi rod or Skagit rod of trad rod, the truth is rods flex in different way, from tip to butt ...but they will all work for casting different lines and different styles. all you need and most important is a perfect match between rod and line .......for your fishing situation.
    For me a rod the flex's all the way to the butt is able to stores more energy, but thats me, store more energy in the rod, less work for me while fishing all day, and if the lines are a perfect match it will cast all of them and any style.

    Underhand casting was described as a style of casting in the 1890's , and i know they debated all this them...
    I seem to have wondered off topic, so coffee time.
    Have fun Speycasting whatever style, just have fun doing it.
    Gordon.
     
  13. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    good job Gordon, coffee time for me too; maybe a little fishing this afternoon... Seems that I have a surfeit of PNW experience, better go get some LOL:rofl:
    http://s1008.photobucket.com/albums...iew&current=P4050241.flv&evt=user_media_share
    shooting a Skagit head...what a novel idea. I better go read up on that:rofl:
    good luck Pan, enjoy the trip. Scandi is fun, frustrating, and very versatile:thumb:
    regards, bob
     
  14. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

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    Nice stuff Speyspaz,
    As a matter of interest what size rod do you normally fish and line weight ? , had the coffee and walk with the dog down the river Spey, abit peaty coloured with all the rain .
    Gordon.
     
  15. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Hi Gordon.
    That rod was a 13' 7/8 Deer Creek, which is an MKS taper, with a naked 550 and a type VI tip. But if you remember, I was lusting after Scott's 13' for 8 at the Sandy clave. A real honor meeting you guys, BTW.

    Most of my fishing last couple years has been shorter rods with skagit heads because my home waters were so blown out all summer, and in winter of course you know most of us here fish skagit to meet conditions. So I totally lost whatever longer belly groove I had and am working now to regrow it so to speak, and at the same time have been exploring light-to-midweight scandi.
    Right now I'm working with a new 14' 6/7/8 Meiser S, which has been a real transition, even after working with a 13' 5/6/7 Hybrid for a year, which has an almost identical taper formula. I'm still mullocking that rod, but it's getting easier now, trying aerial snap T's and aerial doubles. the 14'er seems to like a 450 Airflow scandi best, (full length). Posting vid of my casting on that stick would be an embarassment just now:hmmm: but I'll get there soon.
    Also since it's dryline time here at last, a 15' 8/9 Deer Creek with 8/9 CND GPS, oh so sweet if I can back off and not hork it. One of these days I'll man up and throw down the $ for a Carron.

    the short version, which I seem incapable of, is 13'-15' rods and midweight lines.:clown:

    The Nisqually, near me, is clouded with glacier milk, there's Chinook rolling between the gear guys. I'm hoping to stake out a little corner this morning while I'm out running errands.