An Inconvenient Truth

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by otter, Jun 25, 2006.

  1. 509

    509 New Member

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    "We could just wing it and hope it does not happen. But it seems as though 276 peer reviewed articles stating that Man is contributing to Global Warming, and 0 (zero) that says we do not, ends the argument.

    dang science..."

    Hmm, I remember how well accepted the great floods of Washington were by the scientific community and lets not forget the warm welcome that the theory of continental drift got from the scientific community when it was first proposed.

    Peer reviewed is just another word for peer pressure. Look at the science...real hard. So much of what passes for science these days is "politically correct".

    But where the science meets the road is politics......Last summer there was a poll in England on what the country should do to meet the kyoto protocols. The choice was ban jet travel or the privately owned car. The poll was split. Half were willing to give up their holidays...the other half their cars.

    So what would you be willing to give up?? Jet travel? One of the primary contributers to global warming. Your car? Makes commuting and fishing trips real difficult.

    Jimmy Carter proposed to ration gasoline to 10 gallons per licensed driver in 1979 during the last "gas" crises. Would you accept that to deal with global warming?

    So do you think Senators Murray and Cantwell will push for limits on jet travel or personal travel to meet Kyoto? Or do you have the feeling that this is all much ado about nothing? Yeah, lets just yell and point rather than do anything about it.....that way I win re-election and all my voters feel good about it!!!
     
  2. Rory McMahon

    Rory McMahon Active Member

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    all i have to say is that it is a real issue that my generation is probably gonna be left to try and fix.

    oh... BTW that whole democrat republican thing is stupid.
     
  3. Bryan Finney

    Bryan Finney Member

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    Hmm, I remember how well accepted the great floods of Washington were by the scientific community and lets not forget the warm welcome that the theory of continental drift got from the scientific community when it was first proposed.


    uh, 509. It was scientists and research who first developed those theories on the floods and tectonics. Eventually, the entire body of peer review journalism came to accept it as fact. Sort of like...global warming.

    But this is a FF forum. So, let's just HOPE you are right and do nothing about Global Warming. I am sure the fish will adapt and evolve. Oops, sorry "evolution" is just a theory by crackpot scientists.
     
  4. Nailknot

    Nailknot Active Member

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    "But where the science meets the road is politics..."

    heh! Joke, right?

    Business is taking it pretty seriously right now. Even in the USA.
     
  5. otter

    otter Banned or Parked

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    The nest generation speaks. Wake up call, boomers?

    Otter
     
  6. 05tacoma

    05tacoma Member

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    Gore... invented internet, saving us from global warming... what next? World peace? I hope, hope, hope, he runs for president!
     
  7. 509

    509 New Member

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    uh, 509. It was scientists and research who first developed those theories on the floods and tectonics. Eventually, the entire body of peer review journalism came to accept it as fact. Sort of like...global warming.

    But this is a FF forum. So, let's just HOPE you are right and do nothing about Global Warming. I am sure the fish will adapt and evolve. Oops, sorry "evolution" is just a theory by crackpot scientists.[/QUOTE]

    Read my post again....slowly. I did not say do nothing about Global Warming. I said be careful about the "science" and what are you willing to do about it. There is a consensus that the earth is warming. There is debate whether its natural or man-made. There is no doubt in my mind that Kyoto is worthless.

    I am not dependent on Boeing for employment. I use very little fossil fuels. Impacts on me would be minor. They would not be for western Washington and the world. We need to be sure that the dramatic impacts are necessary and actually do work.

    I do believe in evolution. I believe that a liberal arts degree is an evolutionary dead end. That's a hell of an inference......if I don't believe in global warming then I must not believe in evolution!!!

    Here is an brief article on Bretz. You should read some of the books on the subject and ridicule that he had to endure for 50 years before his theories were accepted. Scientific disagreement is fine. Ridicule of ideas is not. My point was that is we are there on the global climate debate.


    http://washingtonhistory.org/wshs/columbia/articles/0105-a3.htm
     
  8. gt

    gt Active Member

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    way too much science from way too many corners of specality to ignore global warming.

    of course, the true believers who just happened to love the color RED, are going to poopoo this whole issue. they will always find some obscure piece of opinion writing to point to to say '...see, it's all make believe...'

    it also just seems to be the case that the folks who choose to paint themselves BLUE or GREEN actually see this for what it is and have tried for some years to beat the drum and start some remediation. but then there is AM radio where all the truth comes from, or perhaps it's the FAUX fantasy network, don't know.

    latest one i was reading is the greenland ice cap, shrinking at a dramatic pace. if this goes, they are estimating a sea rise of TWENTY ONE FEET and a shut down of the gulf stream. hey, i am going to have beach front property pretty soon!

    keep it up, boys and girls, you whippers are in for a very bad time in the very near future combining global warming with the deficit should keep'yah pretty busy right through the next 3 generations or more.
     
  9. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    What if it is 99.9999999 natural? So basically, yes, we are contributing, but anything we can do to 'reverse' or 'slow' it is too little too late. It is is because of natrual cycles, solar flares, natural swamps, valcanoes, forest fires, etc - wouldn't the true environmentalist approach be to let the natuaral process run its course? Wouldnt' the smart thing to do be to start planning right now anyway? So we are expecting huge snow packs in the coming years? Sounds like a good time to invest in the ski lodges. If the sea level is going to rise, invest in some property on the near by hill that will soon be beach front.

    What other ideas do you have to take advantage of the coming climate changes?
     
  10. smc

    smc Active Member

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    Buy real estate on the moon. :D
     
  11. Bryan Finney

    Bryan Finney Member

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    hmmm. What to do about it, indeed. Here is a start, take my ridiculous tax cut and others that are making over 150k, combine that with the 30b per month in Iraq and invest in the brilliance of american innovation to develop alternative energy sources. (It is way out of my pay grade to say what those alternatives could be.)

    Or maybe I am wrong and our kids will thank us for setting up an economic model based on borrowing money from China to buy oil from Saudi sheiks.

    Back to bigger priorities....like this beaver pond I just discovered off of 90. It rocked on Saturday!
     
  12. Stephen Rice

    Stephen Rice Senior Member

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    iagree even if it weren't true and it was all just a theory can we really afford to ignore it? what I am trying to say is even if it was hype, wouldn't it really be a good idea to find alternatives anyway so we can clean up our air and our water, I get sick of looking at that brown haze when the weather gets hot. it just makes sense to find ways that keep us and our planet from getting sick all of the time. IMHO
     
  13. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    First, I'm not denying that there is global climate change. I'm just saying it could be nearly 100% natural. Trying to fix it could be like peeing in the ocean. Not gonna change a thing in the big picture of things. And further, if it IS natural, woulnd't the environmentalist approach be to let nature run it's course?

    As for pollution - I don't see anyone here argueing that we shouldn't try to clean things up.

    I think a direct approach would be much more effective and provide much more tangible results. Most of america isn't interested in watching Al Gore at the movies (even it it was for free). But you find a source of pollution in their backyard \ community, and show the dead fish, sick animals, etc, and you have yourself some ammo and some recruits who'd be willing to step up and fight it. Remember "think globally, act locally". Do something you KNOW will make a difference today, tomorrow, and the future. It is grass roots efforts like that that grow and spread. Wage a successful campaign in your community and others will catch on.
     
  14. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

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    MY 2 cents:
    It doesn't take much research to see this is mostly not a natural thing happening. We did it. It is running it's course, and maybe it can be alleviated by Earthlings changing their ways.
    It is not likely that Earthlings will greatly change their ways until Mother Nature really puts the hammer down and forces people to deal with the changes that will likely be coming. By then super major natural events will already have played out and people will be mostly dealing with the affects of climate change and finding new ways to live with the different climate. People will then be more tuned in and will make some changes that are less impacting on Earth.
    Personally, I love this planet and the little bit of naturalness it has left. I don't relish the thought of not being able to swing a steelhead fly as the mist of morning hovers over the river and the first light of day breaks over the trees. I am willing to do something to preserve that and restore what's been lost.
    I am not optimistic that things will get better before they get worse, but am not giving up on some changing of direction. We must act locally, but also we need global leaders with the same vision. People will have to come together to pull this off. I wonder if that can happen.
     
  15. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    Good point NN, save for one thing. The number of 'screens' this is showing is tiny vs. most of the main stream "movies." You have to look at the 'gosinto' (screens showing vs. ticket dollars) to get a real "picture" of how a film is actually doing view wise.

    Good point Chad. I've cut my driving about down to a minimum (saving a hell of a lot of money in the process!). Where I'd drive to the local Albertson's I now walk as it's actually only a few blocks away. Buy what you can carry home in a couple of bags and save the gas. As for fishing, I used to take 'lots' of short trips up to the Rogue, now I plan on doing 'a day.' Actually fishing more, and saving a lot of gas money in the process.
    Fred