An Inconvenient Truth

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by otter, Jun 25, 2006.

  1. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    Salmo...It is those with power have little knowdlege and those with knowledge have little power, I did a lot of science classes, I'm sure some did more, some not.....but science gets in the way of religion...which gets in the way of people's rights...which have an effect on politician's approach to leglislate, because the guy/gal running his program/career is telling him/her what he has to do not to offend or defend ....C'mon...you want to fix a problem ..do you ask the stock holder or the guys working the plant. :confused:
     
  2. Nailknot

    Nailknot Active Member

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    There is a broad based assumption that we can't replace petroleum with other fuel sources. While I'm sure Exxon is happy to agree with this- it's rather unimaginative if not downright unamerican to think we innovate our way out of the dead end. Greenhouse gas emissions or no, isn't it time we stopped sending billion every day to King Saudi, Venezula, Nigeria and other rouge states?
     
  3. 509

    509 New Member

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    As someone that has been closely following the technology behind alternative energy.....you do that when you have a solar house. The "magic bullet" solution to our energy problems is not in sight.

    In 1996 Barrons had an article by a gentleman that promised a mini-gas turbine generating plant for every home within three to five years. Within 10 years he promised that we would be swapping out that turbine for a fuel-cell generating plant. The propane dealer that year was promising a complete cooling, heating and electric generating plant for next year. Well, it is ten years later and nothing new has shown up!!

    DOD has been spending a minimum of 2 billion dollars a year on fuel cell technology for the past 10 years. We're still waiting for breakthroughs on that investment. Every couple of years there's talk of new battery technology...but my house still runs off lead-acid. New solar cells that are much more efficient hit the news releases...but somehow they never seem to pan out.

    I think eventually there will be a breakthrough...but it will be much tougher than we think. Don't forget that its not just us looking for a breakthrough....Japan is 95% dependent on imported oil. They haven't found the magic bullet and while they are better at imitation rather than basic research...they are good and looking just like us.

    The good news is the Hubert's peak in oil production is starting to look more and more like the real thing. That will decrease supply of oil and increase price signifcantly making alternative energy sources much more attractive. However, it will result in dramatic changes in our lifestyles if this happens.

    In the short term, we can stop using oil and natural gas for generating electricity. Coal, nuclear, and hydro all do fine jobs of generating electricity. There really is no alternative to oil for transportation. We probably can stretch out the oil supply for a few more years with this strategy. At the very least we need to be thinking about 55 MPH speed limits again.

    These will be very interesting time for the next decade or two until we find that magic bullet.

    Oh, almost forgot......when I did the carbon calculator almost half of our contribution to global warming came from hunting, fishing and other outdoor trips!! That shouldn't count!!

    509
     
  4. otter

    otter Banned or Parked

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    Here's what's absolutely cool to me.........all of the way alive, upfront brains on this forum! Sure as hell smarter than yrs. truly. If you can outsmart a trout - or a steelhead - then we can sure as hell figure our way out of this climate mess. I said at the beginning that this isn't about politics. Its about do it. The way i've always dealt with bosses, lawyers and politicians is to go out and get it done. The next thing you know is you have the boss, the politician or the lawyer running about a hundred yards behind you saying, "hey, wait up, wait up". And you keep running, and they get more agitated, and start hollering "stop, stop, wait up for me". So you stop and let them catch up, and then tell them that they are either on the bus or off the bus. They seem to mind pretty well after that.............

    And I agree that this thread - as more than a few of us have pointed out - is not about fishing exactly. Nor is the want ad and for sales thread on this site about fishing, exactly. So if global climactic change is really a king hell subject here ( hello, moderator) maybe there should be a separate thread on this site. Either that, or we can go our separate ways. But I remember the american revolutionary war person who said "Gentlemen, we can either all hang together, or we can each hang alone." So lets keep the conversation going.


    Otter
     
  5. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    Not sure if this is already in the thread but (today) news on the internet that MARS is (apparently) going through its version of global warming. Hummmm?:confused:
     
  6. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    Okay...how many 100.00 dollar bills were falling out of your pocket when they were chasing you?......The only bus they will get on is the one that leads to a better life for them and their support crew...and most of the time that is at the expense of __________ :confused: Always ask...Cui bono?

    After how many centuries of organized/political human life....what has been the constant and has never changed......and the fall of all (eventually)? Eliminate that constant and you have the answer to so many of our problems.
     
  7. otter

    otter Banned or Parked

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    Porter -

    Zip nada. Number one, didn't have enough. And number two, tight with what i've got. Number three, I'll be damned if i'm gonna suck up to them. Number four, they're opportunists, scavengers, and I would be offering a deadly insult to a hyena if i made a comparison.

    What they go after is a thing that's got a life of its own, to try to suck it dry. And i am, to put it mildly, adverse to that.


    Otter
     
  8. silver

    silver south paw

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    Fear and paranoia are the tools of power and the backbone of all political aspirations. Science is not the flaw, but the way that it is imparted upon the public is. CFC's... CO2... water evaporation... they all contribute to global warming- but then what? We keep things as is and die in an arid desert?? We bite the bullet, throw away the current tools of our capitalist machine and live to fish another day?? Two schools of thought for two politcal parties and two different outlooks. Our information is all point counter-point and no matter how you decide to look at the issue it means great struggle or potential disaster. PRETTY SCARY either way, and isn't that how it's supposed to be? A scared public is an uninformed public that exists in a state of panic that looses any capacity for imagination. I don't know the answers to the changes in climate but I have read some of the science as reported by scientists.

    From what I gather the largest contributing factor to climate and the massive effects therein is the current state of the oceans. The ocean's salinity, equatorial temperatures, and how it mixes are what the scientists are talking about as guiding climate fluctuations, with CFC, H2O vapor, and CO2 gasses guest starring in the process. Last I checked humans have very little to do with the hydrological cycles of the ocean. But you won't see much real science on this issue on TV, or in the next political campaign, because that sort of information does not inspire confidence in the public to endorse their leaders. So we are subjected to misinformation to create man made problems that have man made solutions. Not all things are in our control(or need to be), and that is refreshing to me.

    :confused:
     
  9. Rory McMahon

    Rory McMahon Active Member

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    you know what is a really bad thing, not sure if its tied to global warming, but it is definately tied to fishing, its acid rain. Think about it, the more acidic the rain gets, that means the more acidic runoff is. If the acidic water runs into a lake that was once alkaline and productive, it would make it less fertile. Taht would make the fish even smaller around here. Can you imagine, a 6 incher being a lunker on the MF.
     
  10. otter

    otter Banned or Parked

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    Yup. Its called coal burning power plants. Not only carbon dioxide, but you get acid rain FREE.

    Otter
     
  11. stokes

    stokes Guest

    The Flat Earth Society told me Global Warming isn't real.

    They also said that hatchery fish are as good as wild, I shouldn't be worried about my privacy (they'll take care of it for me), whatever they do is fine because God is on their side, tax breaks for the rich are more important than help for the poor, press leaks are treason unless it came from them, there oughta be limits to our freedoms, and I'm either with them or the terrorists.

    "Mission Accomplished", they've scared me into submission.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'm in the last throes of duct taping my house shut.

    (That oughta lock it up)

    p.s. The honourable Senator from Alaska is a pompous ass. :cool:

    p.s.s. Thank you to to the Men and Women of our Armed Services. Seriously. I have the highest respect for your service and sacrifice. My qualms lie with what you are asked to do by those who have never walked a mile in your boots.
     
  12. gt

    gt Active Member

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    thanks stokes, great summary iagree
     
  13. creekx

    creekx spent spinner

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    Its extremely disingenuous how many continually blur the distinction between "global warming" and "human-caused global warming" by using the terms interchangeably. Two very different issues.

    That is a poor (and backwards) analogy.

    Time was, the conventional wisdom was that the earth is flat. Thankfully, a few men dared to challenge that ideology.

    Today the conventional wisdom is that man is causing global warming. The voices that dare question that ideology in the slightest (even just by asking simple questions) are marginalized and no debate is allowed.

    BTW, thirty years ago the conventional wisdom was that man is causing global cooling. Should all debate and research have stopped there?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. gt

    gt Active Member

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    so what happens when we change the time axis to, lets say, the past 30 yearsnad jump the temperture upwards 2-3c??? just how does the '...natural cyle of events...' arguement fit???
     
  15. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    '' :thumb: ...... good :)