Annual Bonneville passage thread/thoughts

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Klickrolf, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    Yeah, they are building, as they always do...falling closer to the 10 yr. avg. though...ain't looking as good as I'd hoped. At least the wild numbers are doing better, very little better.

    If this year becomes good it's still likely be half of 2001, 2009 and 10 were also good but we keep trending downhill so something is wrong within the management regime...and please, don't bring up ocean conditions! If you do I'll reply with "you don't know what you're talking about"!
     
  2. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Dear Klickrolf,

    You don't know what you're talking about.

    Sincerely,

    Sg
     
  3. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    Dear Salmo_g,

    Thanks for your kindness and thoughtful response! I thought you knew about freshwater impacts to steelhead populations? What percentage of importance would you pin on ocean conditions?.. Ocean conditions are a non-issue! We should concentrate on what is happening in freshwater and places like Puget Sound, we can get to ocean conditions after we've solved the freshwater issues.

    Sincerely.
    klickrolf

    Edit: Bonneville passage might be getting stronger, the wild numbers jumped nicely yesterday.
     
  4. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    Deleted
     
  5. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Klickrolf,

    I know you think ocean conditions are a non-issue, which is why I replied so thoughtfully. I figured you have enough sense of humor to appreciate a poke with a stick as long as it isn't in your eye. Nonetheless, my response is not without reason.

    Barring extreme flood scour, which can reduce egg to fry survival to as low as 2%, ocean survival, through good times and bad, is where the highest mortality rates occur. Ocean survival (SAR) seldom exceeds 10%, and is typically far lower for almost every stock in the last decade or more. Even smolt survival through the Columbia River dam death traps has been trending upward as new fish passage technologies are employed. Previous smolt survival from the Snake to Astoria was as low as 15%, but that's still higher than ocean survival. So saying that ocean conditions is a non-issue seems highly misplaced if not outright mis-informed.

    Quite interestingly - to me anyway - some recent multi-variate regression correlations found no significant correlations between summer low flows, winter flood flows, and spawning escapement, three variables that are generally thought and found to be highly significant for salmon survival, with wild steelhead abundance. To be completely forthcoming, it didn't find any correlation with PDO either, but I'm convinced PDO is to coarse of an ocean metric to tease out effects on steelhead ocean survival.

    You said something is wrong within the management regime that is adversely affecting steelhead abundance. Since the main function of management is to regulate fishing, I take it that you mean that management is allowing too much fishing. So if fewer steelhead were harvested (already near zero in PS and low in CR), are you suggesting that steelhead abundance would increase? Remember - no significant correlation between spawning escapement and wild steelhead abundance, suggesting that contemporary escapements are adequate for most streams carrying capacity.

    More sincerely than last post,

    Sg
     
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  6. docstash

    docstash Active Member

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    The same Hatchery Steelhead that are planted in the Klickitat have been booming in the Great Lakes since their introduction. If you took all the calls from back east that I do you would be shocked to hear the daily average number of steelhead caught. A gentleman that I talked to last week and have for a couple of years been supplying two handed rods to for both himself and his wife, says a mediocre fisherman like his wife can catch over 20 a day. He takes two weeks and fishes NY state every year.

    The Habitat on the upper Klickitat has to be quite an improvement to the spawning habitat of the Great Lakes, the difference is the food chain and predation where they grow to adult size for the spawning journey.

    Are there commercial nets in the Columbia that should have been stopped years ago, yes. Are the Native Tribes over fishing, yes. Is the Klickitat full of non native Salmon, yes.

    Not being a scientist I have no proof or studies, just word of mouth.

    Craig
    @redsflyshop.com
     
  7. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Most GL tributaries are poorly suited to the natural reproduction of steelhead. The ones that are well suited are very productive. There are at least two factors favoring GL SAR. They are the lack of mortality associated with freshwater to saltwater transition and back again, and the far lower abundance of estuarine and marine predators.

    In order to catch over 20 steelhead a day, there first must be more than 20 steelhead present in the section of river being fished. We have a fish abundance problem here in the PNW.

    Sg
     
  8. Jim Kerr

    Jim Kerr Active Member

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    SG,
    I have to disagree. I believe that you can catch 20 a day with only about 13 present, as long as you release at least 7.
     
  9. docstash

    docstash Active Member

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    Even better in that 20 a day steelhead, the non native brown trout to 15 pounds are incidental.

    Craig
     
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  10. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    touche' Jim! What was I thinkin'?!!
     
  11. SilverFly

    SilverFly Active Member

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    The counts have doubled in the last 5 days. 2039 went over yesterday. The bad news is the river temperature, now at 65, is within a few degrees of thermal barrier levels.
     
  12. golfman44

    golfman44 4-Time Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year

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    Why do people care about adfluvial great Lakes Rainbows do much? I catch my fix of those up at pass lake every now and then when I get bored.
     
  13. underachiever

    underachiever !

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    Probably because those GL fish originated from the very same hatcheries as fisheries that are currently in the shitter. Seems pretty normal for people to wonder "what the hell"? Might wanna check out the definition of adfluvial, I'd be surprised to find any of those in pass lake.
     
  14. golfman44

    golfman44 4-Time Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year

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    That clearly went over your head, nevermind.
     
  15. underachiever

    underachiever !

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    Indeed, could be the numerous bourbons that went into my head this evening.
     
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