Just to keep the neocons and psyco-denial types here upset, here are the facts - AGAIN. The NOAA airport data in Ellensburg demonstrates winters (up until the 1970's) to 30 below zero one in 10 years with most winters falling 20 to 25 below zero. The records are maintained starting from the 1930's with significant warming starting in the 1980's. So there was a 50 year period of stable temps ON RECORD up until the 1980's. Over 90 percent of climatoligists - the REAL scientists - are telling us we have a real problem and need to act fast. And this just pisses some people off. Classical symptoms of denial. I would guess many of the deniers here are working in an industry, have investments in certain companies, etc and that take offense at those who speak the truth here regarding global warming. Most recently, there has been suggestion that litigation against oil industries and others may come as a result of global warming concensus. I can think of no other motivation for such companies to hire trolls to muddy the waters on forums like this one. Coach Duhh - I will pray for you. Same with PWeb (I assume P stands for pissed). Either trolls or a serious case of denail. I mean look at how many very aggressive posts you have put here. Clearly, a symptom of denial. You guys just will not let it go. You post 10 even 20 messages to the average user's 1 message. That is a clear indication there is a wire loose upstairs. Our minus 30 temps in Ellensburg are no more. People proclaim this year as a cold winter. Sure it was cold. We almost hit zero. But it does not hold a candle to 20 and 30 below zero as were MOST of our winters in NORMAL years. Ellensburg rarely falls to single digits anymore. Similarly, our summers were almost always below 100F. A 90 degree day was very hot in the past. Today, 105 is the norm for summer and a hot summer is pushing 110. Now the deniers will say that is natural glacial cycle of warming. What they will not admit that is that 10 and 20 degree changes in the past happened over tens of thosands of years... not 15 years as we have seen. AND recorded. ON the record. All of this is recorded in the NOAA data from the airport here in Ellensburg. Trends are similar at ALL Washington NOAA weather sites. If the heating continues (as it has over the last 15 years) we will be pushing 120 and even 130 as a possibility in the Yakima Canyon - within the next 15 years. If it does, there will be no trout fishery. Not here, not on the Wenatchee, not on the Methow, not on the Klickitat. Kiss our fisheries good bye - and if it continues, our asses are next. Now lets move on to our local news. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/232047_lakewash11.html And comments like this from our own Fish and Game. "This is going to alarm people," said Dave Seiler, a salmon scientist with the state Department of Fish and Wildlife, "but I think the story ought to come out." As the graphs in this article, the water temps in Lake Washington directly match the airport data from NOAA at most of our weather sites. The warming started in the 1970's. While the deniers here will pick out any one statement to grasp to their false perceptions, they will completely ignore this statement from the article: "But most think global warming is likely the largest engine driving the change -- particularly in the temperature increase seen during the summer." Our how about our recent dead zones of the Washington Coast? http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-deadzone15feb15,0,3979313.story Yes, the oxygen deprevation that in the past has been destroying stocks of fish and wildlife off the coast of California and Oregon have now extended to washington waters. And then there is this fact. The Arbor Day Foundation produces maps on our seed packets in the stores. The maps from 16 years ago are compared to the most recent maps and demonstrate a two zone increase (20 degrees) in some places in Washington (as well as most of the rest of the country) with most areas increasing at least 10 degrees. We are 1 and 2 zones hotter than we were 16 years ago. http://www.fourthcornernurseries.com/Article13.asp And still the denier (or trolls) will condemn my the facts I have presented here. Now, I am going to keep posting here with more and more of the truth because the idiots are hoping they can overwhelm this forum with their lies. And just to piss them off I am going to post here every so often with other facts as well as recaps of what facts have already been covered (and they do not want you to hear). And I will keep posting so long as they exercise their 'rights' to lie and muddy the water. Again, quite frankly, I think some of them may be paid to inhabit forums like this to intentionally muddy the waters and modify public sentiment. The legal issues provide for such motivation but the large corporations to hire such folks. And so long as they continue, I will too. I can hear the gnashing of teeth. Denial is a real human failing... for those who are not trolls. And these folks in denial will respond here by completely ignoring these clearly overwhelming facts by agencies that cannot be refuted. Just watch. And there are some people here that just have a chip on their shoulder and refuse to admit the science. Like a drunk or druggie that will not admit they have a problem. They reach for one report (MT Saint Helens as was earlier given as an example) and refuse to accept the USGS statement in that SAME article that nearly all other glaciers (100's of them) in the US are receding. There is another word here besides denial. It is the term idiot. They take the one example and refuse to consider the other 100 that refute their single source. I mean, there is no other word but 'idiot' to explain this behavior. And the fact that they are not scientists... well, what can I say? And yes, I am a scientist. An ecologist. These people are your typical idiots - and the reason they are NOT scientists. And because they will not be heard in the scientific forums, all the more they spread their lies on general public forums like this one. What is really surprising is how many posts and how long they have been at it. Again, this is a sign of denial.... or trolling. I post a couple messages one day and come back a week later and find these people have been posting everyday - a few individuals - to the tune of 10 and 20 posts each. The sick passion of denial in action. They have taken it personally because the truth is they ARE in denial and they are pissed when those with scientific degrees point it out to them. And so they post all the more - demonstrating their complete lack of intellect. I will post again soon I am sure. Just keep it up guys, I will be happy to post ever more articles and the fact of global warming.