another disturbing impact

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by gt, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. WPEB

    WPEB member

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    Is that anthropogenic warming? Because if it is I would love to read about it. I have yet to find any credible evidence linking the two.

    And its funny how you can say that all the "credible scientists" say that the weather we are seeing is a direct result of global warming. Maybe you should do some research.
     
  2. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    You're exactly right about language controlling the scope of the debate. But you're dead wrong about who coined the phrase 'climate change' first. Why would a 'The sky is falling!' liberal like Al Gore seek to soften the message he so carefully framed in 'An Inconvenient Truth'?

    But first, a minor correction for the record.

    I don't hate all things Republican. I'm a great fan of the historic GOP beliefs in small government and lower taxes. But I'm dead set against the budget deficit shell game as invented by Ronald Reagan and taken to new depths by George W. Bush. I'm frankly embarrassed that the party of Eisenhower, Nixon and Goldwater has been hijacked by the religious right for their own selfish gains.

    Nonetheless I voted for John McCain in this state's last open primary election in and if it comes down to him vs. Billary in November, I'll vote for McCain again. Why? For the very reason that Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter are so incensed with him: he has the nerve to actually compromise with Democrats instead of demonize them.

    But I digress.

    To my earlier point, Al Gore didn't invent the phrase 'climate change', which is much softer and less-ominous-sounding than 'global warming', although he does in fact use it in his film.

    Instead it was coined by Republican pollster and communications advisor Frank Luntz in a confidential 2003 briefing book for conservative candidates seeking re-election that was leaked to the press, including CBS' '60-Minutes' and PBS' 'Frontline'.

    Quoting from http://www.desmogblog.com/bushs-chief-climate-spinmaster-tells-harper-how-its-done:

    Luntz is famous for what he calls 'language guidance' -- the use of simple messages, carefully tested and frequently repeated, to overcome public suspicions on potentially unpopular policies."

    In his 2003 memo he told Republicans not to use economic arguments against environmental regulations, because environmental arguments would always win out with average Americans concerned about their health. Luntz also told his U.S. clients to stress common sense and accountability.

    "First, assure your audience that you are committed to 'preserving and protecting' the environment but that 'it can be done more wisely and effectively.' Absolutely do not raise economic arguments first.''

    Luntz advises use of the term "climate change'' rather than "global warming,'' which he says is more frightening.

    If you're gonna play the arch-conservative here, at least get your facts straight.

    K
     
  3. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    So what you are saying is that it's a death sentence in ones scientific career to even think the world is not flat. How hard can it be to show the speed of all climate change in the past is radically different than the speed of change now in correlation to man’s current desire to choke off his own air supply? Anyway, enough. It’s a bad deal with the dead zones off our coast.
     
  4. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Weird again... And here I thought the term "climate change" had been around for decades... Here, we see it was commonly used in 1988 and prior in the scientific and political arena. Hmmm, another "Inconvenient Truth?"

    "The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is a scientific body tasked to evaluate the risk of climate change caused by human activity. The panel was established in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), two organizations of the United Nations."
     
  5. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    I'm sure if you look back even further you could probably find the phrase 'climate change' published in the NY Times back in the 19th century.

    Nobody's claiming that Frank Luntz was the first person on earth to stick those two words together, only that he advised Republicans seeking re-election to use the phrase instead of 'global warming' due to his research showing it to be less alarming to the average American and thus more likely to get them re-elected by a gullible public. It's all about the context, not the literal interpretation.

    Hmmm . . . obviously it worked on you.

    K
     
  6. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Kent, you are now doing the flip flopping that will remind us all of our good friend John Kerry ;)

    You did in fact say:


    coined: To devise a new word or phrase.
     
  7. creekx

    creekx spent spinner

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    "To my earlier point, Al Gore didn't invent the phrase 'climate change', which is much softer and less-ominous-sounding than 'global warming', although he does in fact use it in his film."

    I never said he did.

    "Instead it was coined by Republican pollster and communications advisor Frank Luntz in a confidential 2003 briefing book for conservative candidates seeking re-election that was leaked to the press, including CBS' '60-Minutes' and PBS' 'Frontline'."

    That's interesting, but the subtle shift to the term 'climate change' predates this by years.


    "Luntz advises use of the term "climate change'' rather than "global warming,'' which he says is more frightening."

    He may very well have advised the use of the term. However he did not invent it. The AGW crowd clearly sees a benefit to using the term, as evidenced by their frequent use of it.


    If you're gonna play the arch-conservative here, at least get your facts straight.

    This has nothing to do with conservative vs. liberal ideology. Continued generalization about political ideology with respect to the AGW debate only increases skepticism that it's nothing more than exploitation for the purpose of power. If you truly care about the environment and not political gain, stop trying to divide and conquer - its counter-productive.
     
  8. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Who's trying to divide and conquer?

    K
     
  9. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    This is starting to go the way of the infamous evolution debate...

     
  10. Dave Hartman

    Dave Hartman Strip'n Flywear

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    Oh goody. Another global warming debate. It's been what? three months since the last one?
    I'm sure this time around will be much more enlightening. . .:rolleyes:

    How 'bout this thread sticks to the OP's point, and everyone who believes in global warming stays here and has a thoughtful conversation.
    And everyone who thinks it doesn't exist can start their own thread and have their own discussion.
    And everyone who wants to just argue can go craigslist.com>personals>rants.

    "Oh, but wait, Dave! What?!? We can't post differing opinions?!?!"
    We've done that. We're about to do it again. Give this thread back to the OP and start your own thread.
    :thumb:
     
  11. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    I'd almost forgotten how funny 'yards post was - thanks for the reminder. That said, any bets that Chadk won't have the last word on this? Onward Christian soldier...:rofl:
     
  12. creekx

    creekx spent spinner

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    Simply a reply to your indictment. Put politics ahead of the environment, and we'll see where that gets us...
     
  13. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    I think we're talking about the same thing here.

    Given the Bush administration's posture regarding climate change and the environment, that is, the expenses to polluting or emitting businesses are too burdensome, the result is the situation we're in today - denial and inaction.

    K
     
  14. creekx

    creekx spent spinner

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    The knife cuts both ways. Al Gore had the bully pulpit for 8 years, but from the rhetoric you'd think the planet began warming in late January of 2001 - as Karl Rove's weather machine came online.
     
  15. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    All too true. But the reality of living in a representative democracy is than the only people with the actual power to change public policy in any kind of meaningful way (such as executive order) are elected by us in a political beauty contest - politicians.

    Fast forward to November 2008 and we'll once again have a choice between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. The ultimate winner may or may not see global warming the same way in February 2009 as they say they do today.

    Sure we can ultimately vote the rascal out of office. But a lot of damage can be done in just 8 years. If you need proof, just look at the past 7 years. Hence my comments earlier.

    K