another disturbing impact

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by gt, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    And for all the attention global warming or any other environmental problem is getting from the presidential candidates and the media that cover them, we will have no direct basis for voting on environmental issues this year, either.

    ... the indirect record, however, makes some things clear. Anyone who says they couldn't foresee differences between the two candidates in 2000 was being willfully blind. I don't think it will be much different this year, although McCain certainly has a better record than GWB.
     
  2. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    In a panel discussion I heard recently on KUOW, one of the participants referred to McCain as a 'competent George W. Bush'.

    K
     
  3. Kevin J. Burnham

    Kevin J. Burnham Active Member

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    Right on !! A Friday night brawl with all the regular baiters !!! Flame on boys flame on !!!
     
  4. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    You don't need to be a "Rocket Scientist" if you read a few facts. Global Warming is happening. I have a couple of Republican friends that would rather "stick their heads in the sand" rather than watch a movie like "An Inconvenient Truth" or other scientific information... I am amazed how people don't can't or won't attempt to use their brains on the issue. Go fly fish while you can knuckleheads. The end is nearer than you think. :p
     
  5. gt

    gt Active Member

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    WOW, someone actually admitting they will vote for the scary uncle, mrfear! and someone who claims to care about the environement and fish on top of that, totally amazing. you need to get some backbone and recognize that uncle mcfear is actually the current flip/flopper. '...water boarding is torture, make no mistake, take it from a former POW...', until you need to pander to the rightwingnuts, then, '...i will vote to support all options...'. yep, the new flip/flopper, or should we label mcfear, the panderer????
     
  6. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    No for McCain!!!!

    That Bomb Iran rework of the Beach Boys was sooooooooooo pandering and sooooooooo in poor taste that I can NEVER forgive him.

    Is that enough O's.
     
  7. MDL

    MDL We work to become, not to acquire.

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    Phil,
    By all means I am no expert in this matter. Who I believe is a credible source will differ from yours. We are entitled to our opinions. Who is credible and who is a crap shoot. I think the scientist who speak with the best abvailable data and no influence from corporate funded universities and corporations will have my ear. Mainstream media is too influenced for my taste. I have read different articles that described the melting artic sheets, cooler sea water and winds that influence our weather. I also believe this global warming will be followed by massive global cooling, mini ice ages. We are having massive de-mineralization of our soil which some believe precedes the ice age. This is another important matter that is being overlooked. The earth is cycling through its stages. Are we speeding this process along? I guess we will find out.
    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  8. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Steve and Alpine - you guys sound kinda bitter. Lighten up and go fishing :thumb:
     
  9. David Prutsman

    David Prutsman All men are equal before fish

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    Sir, you may spin my words however you wish to create your argument. What I am saying is that less than 30 percent of the worlds researchers feel there is not enough information to come to a conclusion.

    Yes, it is career suicide to come to a conclusion based on personal views and beliefs without assimilating all the data. That is a scientists biggest fear, which is often why (especially down here) they do not even look at data until completely compiled for the fear of coming to predeterminations. If even a single mistake is made, it will be scrutinized by the rest of the scientific community and discarded. Reserchers here spend an entire season collecting data with only a single shot to draw relevent conclusions.

    I would like to know what your source is regarding the topic. I'm pretty sure you're not at the bottom of the freaking planet getting it straight from the source!

    David
     
  10. gt

    gt Active Member

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    30% or the world researchers (i would like to see where you get that number from)..........well i guess that leaves 70% who do believe global warming is for real! the worldwide form on climate change, seems i remember that the statistic they quoted, and by their admission it was conservative, was that mankind was responsible for our climate change with a confidence statistic of 96%. choose to believe whomever you are most comfortable believing, but make no mistake, man has and continues to cause dramatic, statistically rapid changes to the one and only environment we have.
     
  11. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide.

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    Again going to the link that gt gave us in his original post, I was looking at the "map" of the dead zone off our coast and it got me wondering about what seasons are the worst for ag runnoff spilling into the Pacific from the mouths of the Columbia, Willapa Bay and Grays Harbor.

    Most likely Fall through Spring when the rains and river flows are heaviest.

    This is also the time of year when the prevailing winds, which help set up the surface currents along the coast, are NOT out of the northwest, but often from the E to SE as storms approach, and turning to from the S or SW as the front hits the shore and moves inland. This would set up southerly currents (called the Davidson Current?) that move all those nutrients (fertilizer and cowshit runnoff) northward.

    go back to that link and look at that map of the dead zone. Looks to me like you can point the finger at agricultural runoff. If it is indeed one of the major culprits behind this particular dead zone, then by extension you might think that more fertilizer applied to the land to grow more biofuel crops will eventually result in more of the same kind of runoff, making the dead zone worse or bigger.

    I know the scenario I just described is pretty damn simplistic, but it crossed my mind.
     
  12. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    look guys, the real cause of what's happening is shown right here. you can't argue with these facts.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    I love it when people get emotionally charged about steadfastly backing either one of those packs of criminals, thieves and liars. In cast you are not tracking along, I mean politicians. I was sent into harm's way to procure natural recources or to protect our interests in natural recources by both parties. Just one sent me with better equipment and ran more covert ops and the other one, twisted things into humanitarian missions and used that as a bullshit cover story for their own covert ops. Neither one had a problem throwing away good troopers lives for oil, uranium or any other resource. It's amazing how much insight you get on our politicians with a TS clearance, a rifle and rucksack. By then again, most of you get your facts from the media right? And of course they have no slant, lean or hidden agendas do they? And of course, all scientists are above being payed off, using their knowledge to influence others to advance their own fame and agendas right? Naaaaah. You guys can spin their bullshit in any way you want, but I quit waiting for the tooth fairy years ago. Call me when there is a 3rd or 4th party.
    In the meantime, bi-partisan BS will continue to give us two deceitful sides of any issue and keep us divided as a country, while they keep filling up their bank accounts and pumping us full of special interests propeganda. The truth (as in anything) usually lies somewhere in the middle, but we don't have a people's voice (political party) for common sense and moderation and true conservation now do we? By the way, hasn't King County the power district in the state been Democratic for many moons now? Yeah, their conservation record has been steller.:rolleyes: Their school districts are even more impressive. I had boots on the ground in that battle too. But then you can blame that on the Republican presidency, who in turn can blame it on the Democratic local government and nothing will get done, but we'll argue and talk about "change" while the machine keeps rolling. Call me when the third party gets ready to go, I'll carry a damn sign around on a street corner for weeks at a time. Until then, I'm going to try to reduce my own global footbprint as much as possible, read as much as I can about Global Warming (while always checking the source) educate my children, and neighbors and support good conservation groups (that are politically unafflilated) and watch you guys get played like fiddles, and fight like little old ladies about the dellusional virtues of being Republican or Democrat.
     
  14. SteveA

    SteveA Gnu to the board

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    Al Gore was president!? I must have missed that headline.
     
  15. FT

    FT Active Member

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    Ah yes, the infamous 96% confidence level. Don't forget that this condidence level was nothing more than the confidence they had in the computer models being able to predict future climate change (whether warming or cooling). Unfortunately, they left out (and said so right up front in the IPC report, while at the same time also stating that these things have important, but difficult to predict effects) things like cloud cover, solar flares, amount and duration of snow cover, La Nina, El Nino, volcanic activity, dust storms, amount of water vapor in the atmosphere, and wind effects on ocean currents and temperatures. And why did they leave out these things despite saying they were important, they were too difficult to predict because they were naturally occuring phenomena.

    Instead, they relied on what things they could add (known as forcings) to the computer models such as CO2, but leaving out things like nitrous oxide (which cooled things off in the models). Hmmmm, I wonder why. It makes me think that there was a desired result from the admittedly not very accurate computer models, which are pretty much the same ones used to predict our weather, and we all know how accurate forecasts are for a week away, not to mention how great they are at predicting (forecasting) the weather 3 months away.

    What happened to the predictions made this summer and early fall about us having a warmer, wetter winter with less snow. Gee I guess they missed it. Oh wait, La Nina returned and that made all the difference causing a colder north Pacific and a colder winter with record snow levels. But the computer models don't even include La Nina or El Nino. Naw, it couldn't be, the models can't be that far off could they? And our passes couldn't have had that much snow. It must be our imagination that snow records have been set this winter.