Another Full Lot Report and Observations

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Shawn Seeger, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    So reasonable AuK9, what is the real story? Etiquette lessons from Shawn? Not sure he offered any ettiquitte lessons. For heavens sake he posted his observations positive and negative. He posted photos taken in a public location and shared them. I was not there but his story reminds me of a few lake days.

    BRINGBRINGBRINGBRING (super freaking loud) Any luck yet, over?
    No, nothing going on my black trolled bugger, over?
    You still using the intermediate, over?
    Yeah, gonna switch it up to a pheasant tail with a beadhead, over?
    You see the guy in the yellow toon with his rod bent in half, over?
    Yeah, looked like he was getting worked over pretty good, over.
    Did you see what he caught that 'bow on, over?
    Nope, but I'm gonna kick in a bit closer, over?

    Why don't you just stay over there and ask me? I can hear your whole converstation from both you and your pals across the lake. I caught that trout on a rubber legged brown bugger fished with a wrist twitch.

    Rude bastard has been eaves dropping on our chat, over.
    Really, over?
    Yeah, what a prick, over.
    Did you see his fly, over?
    No, but he told me it was a brown rubber legged bugger fished with a wrist twitch, over.
    Good to know, switching up to that one now, over.
    Okay, I'm gonna go take a piss and warm up my frozen toes, over.
    Alright, call me when you are ready to get back at it, over.
    Will do, over.

    Relaxing as hell, makes me want to go back to my cubicle. By the way, since you are not taking etiquette lessons from Shawn I'm not taking mine from you. (Like we all have a 70' backcast - LOL) With parenthetic statements like that you are basically saying you laugh, like he is lying. Have you seen him cast? I have not, but it is not like he boasted about something unlikely, say casting 125' from a seated position in a pontoon boat (doable, but not by many). I've seen a lot of guys huck 70' of line from a toon, even some do it from a tube. He could have said he was sticking fish every 4.5 minutes and brought in 75 during his outing.

    Sorry, guess my hackles are up over the differences in perspective. You can take me off your Christmas Card list. By the way I don't even know Shawn, so don't even go there.
     
  2. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

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    Sorry AuK9,

    I disagree, the fisher in question who trolled to close, flat out trolled to close, don't try to make excuses for them. Yes there were alot of boats on the water, but there was also ALOT of room on the lake to move around for trollers and trollers did just fine staying away from the anchor crowd. Monopolizing? Really? I love it when one person says the fish move around, and then someone else says that others were monopolizing the popular areas. Is that jealousy? I don't know. But I'm not leaving a producing area of water because someone else has in my opinion a false sense of entitlement.

    I will agree though that the picture may have been a bit much.

    Searun,

    There is a big difference between perceptions and intentions. If the fisher you speak of thinks that someone purposfully entangled her rod on a backcast I would say that that is her false sense of perception and not the intention of the angler I saw hook her. So her upset behavior might stem from some long line of having to work her way into the sport, but that does not give her the right to percieve rudeness in others.

    As for your comments or your friends comments anyway: "There were stories of other fishers that were territorial, loud, boastful and full of hubris." Well I'll percieve that they were talking about me and my friends because they fished next to us pretty much the whole day. The one angler not trolling around moved right next to me after I had already been anchored and fishing awhile. She moved into where I was casting my indicator after I had retrieved it about half the distance back to me. She asked if she was to close and I explained that I was casting to where she was but I told her no problem and she anchored up. With that I just started casting to another area. No biggie I thought. When people fish next to me I find myself wishing for their success as much as my own and I was truly jubilant when she hooked her first fish and because of the sound of her reel I thought it was fighting well so I was again excited for her success. She didn't seemed pleased that I was happy for her so I stopped and kept smiling on the inside. At another point she hooked a fish and I admit I couldn't help myself again and I showed excitement for her and honest disappoint when it came un buttoned shortly into the fight. AT NO point were my friends and I territorial though. We never tried to chase her out we never minded others kicking by, we or at least I happily shared how I was fishing for those also looking for success and as for the troller lady we never really cared we just thought it was funny that she was mad at us when she trolled right behind my buddy and accidentally got caught up in his backcast after a missed fish (I watched the indicator go down myself, just can't help watching other peoples indicators.)

    Yes we were loud, ok I was loud but not in an evil or jerky sort of way, just a having fun catching fish sort of way and I will never again apologize for enjoying myself while catching fish. Boastful? If that means happy to share how we were finding success than yep, guilty there as well. Full of hubris? Well again it goes back to your definition of perception or their perceptions I guess, but again I think the fault lies with them not us. If they percieved HUBRIS well what can I say maybe they are just a tad too sensitive when they aren't catching as many fish. Maybe the simple act of us hooking more fish than they did made us arrogant and boastful. Is confidence arrogance. In the end though our fall never came.

    I write this to you Searun hoping that you pass on my own intentions to your friends. I'm a friendly fun loving guy who really does not mean to offend anyone but when others percieve offence when none is meant and they don't take the neccesary steps to check for intention than I refuse to feel bad for them.

    Ira

    Ira..
     
  3. Sageman

    Sageman Member

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    Thanks Ira, not much else to say....

    I apologize for hooking her on my backcast, as Ira said I missed a fish and tried to turn it into a recast. We had been watching her for a couple of hours and was wondering how long it would be before she got hooked. She was kicking right behind lots of people and trolling right into where a lot of people were fishing for about an hour or two before this happened. I wasn't annoyed. I'm pretty tolerant when I fish places like Lenice where there are about 100 other people. I just figured she was probably pretty new to the scene. Most people figure out pretty quickly that you need to be careful when you go behind people. Either give them a wide berth or at least let them know you are back there if you are unable to stay wide. Hookups are still going to happen when the lake is busy, it is just part of the game this time of year. Obviously the fish don't care that much.
     
  4. Allison

    Allison Banned or Parked

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    I'm a little disappointed to hear of the gender of the offender. Insert "black", "Mexican" or other distinguishing feature and you might see where I'm going with this. I can't defend the troller, but it's because I wasn't there. That said, it IS a bit tough for a woman to become accepted into the community, and after 5 years on the fly, I've still never fished with another woman. I just hate to see someone singled out based on gender. Single them out based on the traffic problems created and leave it at that.

    I am fortunate enough to be a disciple/friend of Captain Larry, and he's been great with me and taught me a lot about fishing and given me a few tips on the etiquette, which is not always intuitive. I still dread being on a crowded river because when that happens, I'm gonna make some etiquette mistakes. Following the forum all these years makes it even more confusing.

    On radios: people, please keep the chatter down. I use one at work a lot, and hate hearing them on the water--it's super distracting. You can skip the "over", it's just wasted chatter.

    On noise carrying on the lake: I was out there several 3rd Weekends in March ago, which is the weekend of Larry's exquisite Bisque Binge. There were a lot of people on the water and I'd never even had a fish on at Lenice, let alone brought one to hand. I spent several minutes struggling with a particularly sizeable Triploid. Just as I was about to haul it in, it twitched off my line, and I LET GO with a string of expletives about a mile long. Later, while eating bisque, I was ID'ed by my white hat. I was firmly (also laughingly) spoken to :ray1: about my colorful language that everyone on the lake had heard, including several kids. So yeah, if you're loud, you will be heard by all.

    I'm a little better at catching fish now, and if I lose one, I lose one, c'est la vie. Larry took me out salmon fishing last fall and I got one on my very first day. It was gigantic (to me)--I got it in the net but was so spastic that it got away before the photo op.

    See many of you weekend after next--I'll be the girl eating bisque and playing with the Flying Furs. Oh, and hopefully catching boatloads of fish.:thumb:
     
  5. Allison

    Allison Banned or Parked

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    Chronnie color/size? I want to make sure I have what I need or tie them if I don't. Thx.
     
  6. Tyler Sadowski

    Tyler Sadowski Active Member

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    Black and red chrionimds in size 12 to 18 should get em done. Put em about a foot off the bottom and your golden. Oh also run two flies about 18 inches apart.
     
  7. Allison

    Allison Banned or Parked

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    Is that a general answer or actually what is hitting right now?
     
  8. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

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    I was there last weekend also. The lake was crowded, but I was expecting that, so it didn't get to me. I only landed one fish, fell out of my tube into the water once, almost lost a fin due to a broken strap, dropped my ciggarretes and lighter into the water and I met two fellows in the parking lot that were pretty cool to yack with. I heard the radios, cell phones, and other stuff, but I really didn't care, they were there for the same reason as everyone else. Just relax, why stress when your out fishing?.
     
  9. searundoc

    searundoc New Member

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    Allison,
    black w red rib seemed effective last weekend. #18 was best, but they took #14 and #16. I heard from another fisher that a pumped fish had tiny bloodworms.
    I did the best on #14 chromies.
     
  10. Northern

    Northern It's all good.

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    Ira,

    I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I'm just genuinely puzzled by this statement:

    If that were a salmon or steelhead river, y'all would be totally pissed if someone parked in the best run and didn't move to yield the spot to the next person. But not on a lake? My experience is that lake fish do tend to school up in one spot and stay there all day (certainly more so than anadromous fishes running up the river), so the idea that you should get to stake out the hot spot seems counterintuitive.

    I'm just curious about that concept. I personally just avoid crowded fishing areas like the plague...
     
  11. Sageman

    Sageman Member

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    Actually, I don't expect anybody to give up their water anywhere if they find something that works. If you do the work to figure out where the fish are and what they are biting on, you should be able to stay and fish them. Rule #1 of fishing: NEVER leave biting fish.
     
  12. Tony

    Tony Left handed Gemini.

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    I've resisted posting on this for a few days just enjoying the show but now I guess I'll throw in, I find it funny that the chriono guys post up locking off entire areas of lakes from other fishers and then expect you to not only to respect the entire area in front of them but also another additional 70' behind them and I'm also guessing they also are laying claim the entire 70' radius around them to boot, I'm sorry but to me this seems sort of selfish and just alittle foolish I bobber fish sometimes and I do ask you not to go right into where my line is but if you wish to troll by behind me and are considerate enough to give me a heads up so if this happens when I'm going to recast I don't hit or hook you no problem I can wait for you to pass and if I'm in a productive area and you want to post up near me and fish there also,no problem, there are plenty of fish for everyone in fact most of the time this is a good way to meet others find new patterns or just maybe get a heads up on whats working.
    Sure there are some that will just plow through rudely but for the most part I think people are considerate and try to get along, this being said I've found all too often its the bobber guys that can be rude, you the ones they race down to the lake and race across to the most productive fishing areas in their opinion and then attempt to freeze everyone else out of the area yeah you know who you are the guys with the big secret flys that can only be spoken about in code and make faces and frowns everytime people get anywhere near your private part of the lake and then have the balls to get angry if someone happens to catch one of your fish swimming around in your private area cause only you are allowed to catch those fish, perhaps I'll get flamed for this but if I'm working down the shoreline casting to the banks and you are posted up I'll give you a shout out and go behind you but I'm not going to stop fishing just because you have some idea you own that area and if you are actually foolish enough to show your ire by backcasting at me expect me to cast right back at ya and if you actually hit me expect to lose your shit cause I'm going to take it, most of what I've read on this post is about etiquette and what everybody else should do for you, hey what about you, I find it hard to believe someone would have the gall to post what they consider to be the hard and fast rules along with pictures and descriptions of who you think the offenders are I also find it hard to believe that there are so many on this site that have chimed in in support of your opinions, this is rude man just rude.
    tony
     
  13. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    gotta agree with the above. way too many guys doing this. makes it hard to be a flyfisherman. i didn't used to have to explain that i'm not a stereo typical elitist jerk, but these day i do, when sharing the water with my brothers and sisters in rods.
     
  14. Shawn Seeger

    Shawn Seeger (aka. wabowhunter)

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    Ok, so I was busy for a few days. But now I would like to say a couple more things.

    First, to the person that I posted the picture of, I am sorry. And I truly mean that. I will now share a picture of myself so as to not come off as being one sided. I also, have had my full name as my screen name every since the call for “using your name, as your screen name” a few years ago.

    View attachment 29948

    Second, I wasn’t trying to force anybody to live by “my” rules. All I was trying to do was get people to think about “treat others as you want to be treated”.

    Now, as for do I expect others to give me all the water, No is the answer. Do, I expect that if I am anchored to have all 70’ in all directions from my boat, No is the answer. As to do I want women to stay at home, NO is the answer (because, I have over the last 15 years only kept 1 fish from this lake!). I am glad to share the water with either gender, and don’t expect or need anybody to do cooking or cleaning for me. Do I use a radio to communicate with other, YES, my fishing partners at a very low volume, including one with hearing aids. (And just so you know one of them uses a radio for communications in the daily job at an airport with airplanes, and that person doesn’t say “over” to me at the end of every broadcast. The other way to effectively end a transmission is to continue to hold the mic button down when you are finished speaking for about 1 second, that way your companions can’t walk over you) To the Colonel in U.S. Army (as well as all other) THANK YOU for your service to our country to protect our rights and freedoms (today and everyday)! I am I complaining about the crowded water, No.

    My wife and I talked about this after I came home. She asked me several questions, “Would you have said something or post the same about a guy?”, yes was my answer, “Why didn’t you say something to the woman?, because women alone or out in the woods already have enough struggles with acceptance or feeling threatened, “Would I (my wife) have said something to her as a woman?”, yes because I have seen you say something in like situations.

    Third, I have trolled, anchored, and waded many waters. And I don’t expect or feel entitled to the water I am in/over. But I would hope that if I am standing, anchored or trolling that someone would not expect me to give way to them just because they come along? Because I would not expect them to give up a hole just because I come along.

    Forth, during the mornings of both days (and afternoons) close to where I was anchored up there were several guys that were trolling in pontoon boats behind be (probably 200 feet – the yellow zone on image) that were doing far better on catching fish than I was anchored. And so it came off as funny or ironic that the person that was trolling was doing so in between boats and having less luck, just my opinion. (Because one of these guys, older green outcast, talked to me at the get out and asked why was she trolling between all you guys, I was doing better?)

    Fifth, it is a funny thing about making an observation or a situation and a person. As science has proven in crime observation. If 10 people witness something, you most likely will get 10 different stories. As for calling out
    if I were to just have said a person was trolling to close to me, everybody that was trolling could just brush it off and say “Oh, he must have been talking about someone else.” Allison, 18-14 snowcone, with red but. Look at my fly box on another posting and you can see my fly’s.

    Sixth, Northern, I don’t know what rivers you fish, but I have fished numours and have NEVER watch a fisherperson give up a productive hole for a guy that just comes in or drifts down. As far as lakes/Stillwater, fish cruise all the time, looking for food. Yes they may stay in a general area, but they don’t just find a spot and then sit on the bottom waiting for food.

    Seventh, I am not complaining about someone trolling through an area and catching fish. What I was trying to describe was a situation where there were several people anchored up. (and since there was very little to no wind, people could cast around the area they were anchored, instead of just down wind) But a person (observed by and complained by many) as to trolling just back and forth where the people were anchored and catching fish. It seemed to be a “I don’t care what you are doing” attitude. I actually had a guy leave an area because of this same troller, and as this person passed me (whom I didn’t know) look right at me and say “What the HELL is her problem?!” and he then left the area completely in disgust. So, this observation was not just mine. Tony/Gearhead, the description of working down a shoreline, giving a shout out, and then keep going is NOT what was happening this day. This person trolled into the boats, then just started trolling up and backs into the boats. This was not a troll through.

    And lastly… there was talk about the lake having about 70 boats/people on the water. Here is a picture of Lenice, with approximately 70 red dots (which are about the size of the outhouse roof in the photo), this is to show that 70 people could be anchored on this lake and still have a LOT of open water! Also this lake shows the deepest part of the lake in blue, generally when trolling it is weighted fly’s or sink/sinktip line. And the yellow area shows where the pontoon guys were doing really good at trolling far behind the anchored guys. And if you look at the zoomed up shot you will see a little white line race track type area where the troller in question came and started going in and out.

    View attachment 29946 View attachment 29947

    Now, if you ask me what I am using I will tell you, the fly, the depth everything. I have on numerous occasions on this lake give them to people right out of my box. I will even sit down and show you how to tie them if you want.

    Cynthia, I also would be glad to share a dram with you, and share about the fishing of the day (at camp), although I will pass on the cigar since I don’t care for them (but will not stop you or pass judgment on you for wanting or smoking one, I would just stand up wind). So, please again apologize to your friend for me.

    Shawn
     
    Irafly likes this.
  15. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    seem abit defensive wanna talk about it :)