Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Sawyer, Aug 2, 2014.
I really like that idea Wapiti, but $500 is out of my price range at the moment....
Very cool pack, but if you need a truly waterproof pack, not just water-resistant, you better bring a drybag to put inside it for things that absolutely can't get wet as that pack is not waterproof. A waterproof pack uses not only waterproof fabrics, but the seams are either taped or welded to prevent water from leaking through the seams. The closure is either a drybag-style roll closure or a very expensive waterproof zipper like found on dry suits or lately, waders, or a heavy duty Ziplock-style zipper (which often needs Velcro over them so they don't pop open).
ALL water-resistant zippers leak. They are basically normal zippers with a coating on the base fabric so water doesn't wick through the zipper as easily. Using water-resistant zippers to close truly waterproof pack or pocket means one thing - you essentially have a bucket and you'll be pouring water out of it in heave rain, if you wade too deeply, fall, swim, etc.
In any case, you have an awesome pack but if you'll be using it in extended serious rain, floating a river or doing any deep wading, you really should add a waterproof pack liner/drybag.
The problem with true waterproof packs is that almost no one makes a full-featured pack like a normal backpack. However, Ortlieb makes a wide range of waterproof packs with lots of features -compression straps, daisy chains, helmet/rope/wader flap pocket, etc. http://www.ortliebusa.com/ProdList.asp?scat=3
In addition, Patagonia (Stormfront) and Sagebrush DryGoods make great waterproof fishing packs that have rod attachment options. Plus any number of companies make what are essentially dry bags with a harness (Cascade Designs, Seattle Sports, Watershed, etc.). There are also some great super lightweight packliner/drybags on the market (Granite Gear, OR, Exped, etc) that can turn any pack into a waterproof one and for someone who needs a full featured fishing pack, this might be the best and cheapest option.
It is clear that as a transport bag you simply don't need it to be waterproof. Anything that is waterproof will be constructed via seam welding and not have any stitching, unless a strap is stitched to a patch that is then welded to the main body of the pack.
Also... Zippers... As Freestone said zippers will be an issue. True waterproof zippers are wicked expensive - like $17.00 and up FOB Asia pricing for quantities in the thousands. What you see most manufacturers using is a reverse zipper. A reverse zipper is nothing more than a regular zipper sewn in backwards. To give it a "tech", "waterproof" look the binding material that the teeth are bonded to is coated with a PEVA substance. Not waterproof by any means.
My favorite transport bag for ski instruction is a Thule duffel. You are correct that 35 liters won't do the job. With the Thule I can stow a pair of alpine boots, extra gloves, extra fleece, instructor jacket, lunch, goggles a water bottle and munchies.
FYI Thule, hands down, makes the best rolling luggage on he market. Every other manufacturer uses standard wheel kits from suppliers - and the wheel kits are the hart of any piece of rolling luggage. Thule bit the bullet and spent the $40K on tooling to create their own wheels.
Why is that? Don't you think that designers from Patagonia, Dana Designs, Osprey, etc. don't go to work for companies like Orvis, Simms or Eddie Bauer? Or that the before mentioned companies contract design work out to independents who might do a project for brand A one month and a project for brand B another?
When you get to know the world that you are looking at you'll see that it is a very small handful of people making the specialty pack business go round and round, and only a handful of factories producing at that level.
I wold also be extremely hesitant to put CB packs anywhere near the level of design and material engineering and sourcing as a Patagonia product.
Eberlestock is the bomb when it comes to packs
Separating the wheat from the chaff can be a tough thing to do when asking for recommendations on the web.
People love to recommend the things they've chosen for themselves regardless of it meeting the requirements.
Marty, that CB and Maxpedition thing gave me the best laugh I've had in a while! Like people weren't designing backpacks before 1998 (CB) or 2003 (Max). Guess he's never heard of Dick Kelty or Greg Lowe or even Wayne or Dana, etc., LOL.
I can't see spending the kind of money REI, Sage Patagonia and the other name brand packs require. I just spent $100 on line for my 3wt rod, we all have our priorities. I have been using a Vietnam era military pack for years. It has room for my waders, boots, lunch and a few cold ones plus all the flies and other things I may need for a day or 2 fishing. I can even tie a couple of rods on the sides. I wouldn't think of it as water prof, but water resistant would cover it. I have used it in some heavy rain and snow and everything inside stayed dry. The only complaint is when I have a heavy load (50 pounds or so) in it a frame pack would be nice. On the other hand I am getting to old to carry 50 pounds around so I guess there is no real complaint.
Freestone, I appreciate that you took the time to write that up, it was informative!
Also, I'm not looking for a submersible backpack, I'm looking for something water resistant enough to get rained on or doused with water and keep the contents dry (but it was said by others, that if I want to put a camera, phone or anything that NEEDS to be dry, I'll get a small dry bag)
I think I may settle for either a 60L or 45L Patagonia Black hole duffle Or the Sagebrush Dry day pack and use a small bag with compartments for tools, tippet, leaders + other stuff. And that way I can stash the large pack and carry what I need in the small one.
You can find water resistant packs all day, and with water proof bags inside, your good. But if you want waterproof...go with patagonia. Mine has never failed after being fully submerged many times. Also, look at the dry bags Navy specwar uses. Can't think of the brand. Similar to the Patagonia style, but beefier.
No dog in this hunt, but I just don't see the need for a waterproof pack. A dry bag for your camera and/or electronics maybe. Folks have been hiking the mountains for decades with canvas, then nylons and cordura, etc. For a fishing bag, my thought was to carry either lightweight hip waders (I just like hippers where ever I can use them) or waders and wading shoes, in the pack. At the end of the day I would put the wet gear in a garbage bag and then back into the pack for the trip out. Or wait till tomorrow if spending the night. Sooner or later the pack is bound to get damp. It's just water.
I should mention that if it is raining hard at the beginning of the hike, I might opt for another location or activity. I have other interests and prefer not to be miserable.
I have the Sage Typhoon and live in Seattle if you want to take a peek. I love it for daytripping and Alaska. Has a fully submersible pocket for your electronics. You would need to go in the drink to get your gear wet. Access is a bit tough as it just has the top opening - but that is what you trade for nearly waterproof. Hasn't been an issue for me.
As far as recommendations it really depends on what you need it for. What size? Does weight matter? What use? The Sage is fairly small. I can fit my packraft, and gear for a daytrip easily enough - but way too small for an overnighter. I think it is 2,400 cubic inches (although I would need to check that out). Good daypack size (and carry on for a plane).
Hyperlight Mountain Gear makes probably the best waterproof packs that are extremely lightweight and can still handle 60lbs comfortably. Made with Cuban Fiber. No pack is 100% submersible. These come close. http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/ I am going to pull the trigger on one of these soon as I am getting more into packrafting. They are expensive. I am getting old though and weight now counts!
Other choices discussed here are good too. I own several different dry bags. Just know that while most of these are well thought out (and many made right here in the NW)- very few carry weight well. I have some that I use on a regular basis; but I would take none of these on an extended trip. Watershed makes some great stuff! www.drybags.com US made and these are completely submersible. I have several of their duffles, but none of their packs - I am sure their packs are quality though.
Anyway - starting to ramble now. I love gear. Hopefully there was something useful here.
Just read the entire post Lol! Feestone has great advice. Even with the Hyperlight bag I would put a lightweight drybag on the inside in case my raft flips. Most drybags are not fully submersible either. Roll top closures will get water inside if they go under for any amount of time. Watersheds have a ziplock type closer that is pretty sweet that is actually submersible. I have dunked their duffles and got not a drop of water inside. A few bags use a dive zipper (Sage has small ones in some capacity on all of their Typhoon series). These zippers add a ton of cost.
Really depends on what you need the gear for. Wading a river and keeping your gear dry in the all but most extreme circumstances? Comfort level? etc... I have nothing against someone using a 20$ pack. I am a 20 year Marine and God knows I have made due when needed. But you get what you pay for. The innovative companies can charge 300$ for a pack for a reason. As I get older I am all about comfort, reliability and well thought out applications. You either design your own stuff, or pay for others ingenuity.
$$$ for gear seems to generate a lot of energy on these forums. Seems to me that to each his own. If you want a waterproof or resistant pack for whatever reason - get one! You can sell if you find it does not cover the intended use.
Final post... Mike - Navy Specwar uses Watershed. Check out Ebay if you are interested. They are expensive - but you they are designed to take some serious abuse and keep your gear 100% dry. Ebay often has these for fairly good deals. I have thought about pulling the trigger on a couple of specific bags in this line. Watershed makes a civilian and military line. Ignore the retail prices for the military online - buy these aftermarket!! These typically have full dive zippers, but a few have the same ziplock style as the consumer models.