Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by MasterAnglerTaylor, Jan 12, 2008.
Are you asking Masteranglertaylor? He is a Master Angler after all.
I guess I am asking someone who is a master angler, not necessarily "masterangler"
Bah....i just cant get a break
A great point Curt!
But apparently it's fallen on deaf ears. I have seen mortality reported in published literature to be up to 40-50% even, but alas if it conflicts with our fishing who cares right? I guess I'll stick to targeting steelhead smolts.
Curt-- A question really pops about the blackmouth mortality: how were the fish caught that die? In other words, were all kinds of tackle included? Bait? If it's the typical downrigger-trolling scenario, then I'm surprised it's that low. I have a hard time thinking that fly-caught blackmouth, taken on barbless hooks and usually hooked in the jaw/roof of mouth, are that 'fragile'.
Actually the immature Chinook are one of the most fragile salmonids that we fish for. As anyone that has caught a few can attest is that they easily lose their scales.
The mortality that I cited is the one that is commonly used in fish management when figuring impacts from various fisheries. It is a combination mortality of commonly used gear for salmon - trolling and bait. I would agree that the mortality on fly caught gear would be lower, espceially if the anglers played the fish quickly, used a release tool (never touching the fish), minimize removing the fish from the water, etc. Even so the mortality would still be considerable higher than we are used to way say resident trout.
The point remains that targeting those small (10 to 18 inch) blackmouth is much like fish for steelhead parr - that is targeting fish that are a couple of years from maturity. With immature steelhead and trout the commonly accepted mortality of fish released with fly gear is in the 1% range. With those juvenile Chinook that mortality is likely several times higher - perhaps an order of magnitude higher.
I merely suggested that if folks have problems with the novice angler targeting juvenile steelhead that same concern would apply even more so with the small blackmouth.
I continue to think it is important that we as anglers concerned with conservation of our resource be cognate what are potential impacts may be on the resource from our angling efforts. I present such imformation as above so that we can make informed decisions.
. . . I don't think anyone is on a fish killing rampage or anything. . . Especially not one of us good conservationalist nature loving fly fisherman on our high horses. Why when I catch my fish I let them hook me in the mouth so I know how it feels! I'm not trashing you for caring about the fish, all I'm saying is none of us are here to go wipe out the fish population. It is legal to fish for Blackmouth of a certain size and so people will do so as long as its legal. No ammount of soap boxing will change that. So lets all just fish ok?
Curt, I really appreciate your sincere efforts to educate people about this topic. It's great to have you on the board.
I seriously doubt that beach bound fly anglers are doing in resident chinook. Also the river bound steelhead smolt analogy doesn't apply very well here. If you use barbless hooks (of reasonable size), keep them off the beach, and don't handle them during the release they will be fine. The exception is an eye or gill hooked fish, which would have to be quite small. The point was made earlier that "targeting" blackmouth is not trivial or routine. The encounters on most beaches are rare and should be appreciated. However, if you happen upon a group of 4-10 inch blackmouth that you can't keep off your fly, then I would move on. That being said, if you find a group of 2-10 pound blackmouth slashing bait in front of you I would recommend fishing for them like a madman.
Whatever you choose, Good Luck.
Mike and I went out today and he busted a nice hatchery blackmouth on one of the flies my son tied. Awesome!
Dude! Considering what i asked you through that pm....i am throwing things at wall right now crying
I need to get out there....
Jeff, you make me feel sick... Sweet fish!
Damn, that's a beaut. Catch him on the green one?
Marc-yes, the green/pink Clouser thing Max ties was the ticket. This one was very sparse and I had him tie a few strands of flash in it. He's so impressed with himself.