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Blue collar spey

Spey 
6K views 55 replies 25 participants last post by  fisshman26 
#1 ·
It is always interesting to me the number of high profile rods that fail to live up to the advertising and hyperbole, and how many wonderful sticks seem to fall through the cracks. I like to refer to a lot of them as "blue collar" rods since they tend to be lower price point rods, or labeled as "entry level" (whatever that means.)

Far and away the most seriously underrated rod I've come across is my St. Croix Imperial 9140. A friend gave me this rod about a year ago claiming he had no use for something this long and heavy, and he didn't feel it was worth his time to try and sell. When I took a few lines down to the river to try on it I was absolutely blown away. Not only at it's power and performance, but by how smooth and easy it was. This rod is fairly fast and very powerful, with a reasonably heavy tip progressing into a stiff butt section. Despite being a powerhouse, it is extremely user friendly and will accommodate a wide range of line types and casting styles. I've been fishing it with a 10/11 Delta Spey, and it's proved to be an unparallelled combination for drilling holes in the wind with bigger flies. It is reasonably light in the hand and comfortable to fish all day. It has also handled the biggest fish the Clearwater has to offer with ease. About the only thing I don't like is the overly short bottom grip which feels very odd to me. Scandi and Skagit casters however will likely feel right at home. If you're looking for an affordable cannon, don't overlook these rods on the used market. They are hard to beat.

So how many folks out there have a great performing stick or two that has been underrated or over looked by the spey casting community at large?
 
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#2 ·
The most overlooked value-priced rod that I have seen and used is the Forecast 11' 6" 6/7 sort of mini-Spey at that length. You can buy the kit for around $100, but you have to build it yourself. It's a great performing, fast action Spey rod, and it's a joy to use. I have several more expensive rods, but the Forecast is my go-to small stream Spey rod.

Sg
 
#3 ·
I think the real deal here is how any given rod can be a dog in one guy's hand and a gem in anothers. It Really doesn't have anything to do with how much it costs and how good it should be, but rather its what works best in my hands. Sometimes what rocks in my hand is a $1000.00 rod, sometimes it's a $500.00 rod, and sometimes it's a 250.00 rod. This is why I have rods all across the price range from many different manufacturers. Ive casted that rod and I don't like it, not because it's a bad rod but rather because it doesnt suit me.
 
G
#5 ·
Blue collar or hidden gems...

I've met too many guys on here who think a rods price should reflect how they can cast it...Like buying a Ferrari and bitching because it sucks in bumper to bumper traffic..."My shiny red car suck..it no fit my style..that cheap green ford keep right up with me in traffic...it boutique car"....

So spending less might mean you have less expectations and more money to spend on lines that might actually fit the rod...Damn imagine that...High end or low end...no rod works without the proper line..but it sure feels better to spend less and find one that does I'd bet...

Sometimes though, like the ferrarri...when you get it out of that bumper to bumper traffic..you'll appreciate what it can really do...Does that make sense?
 
#6 ·
Despite being a powerhouse, it is extremely user friendly and will accommodate a wide range of line types and casting styles.

So how many folks out there have a great performing stick or two that has been underrated or over looked by the spey casting community at large?
well, In general I agree with your statement that there are many rods are user friendly and easy to cast.

But please keep in mind, there are more than those elements I will be asking in a high end rod IF I am buying one. In addition, high end rod could go very SPECIALIZED which is not going to please EVERYONE. that is the main reason it is call specialized niche, regardless they are in general has higher grade of component.

For instance, TCX 7126, some people love it, some people absolutely hate it... but if you are looking into this kind of light quick and crispy niche, this is the quick fiber your best money can get. You might say: who cares?! That's right, this is the fiber only for people who "cares"!

I think Adam (Panhandle) has a good point. I can't agree with him more, my rods collection across high to low end, only depends if they have the right ELEMENTS I am looking for. Mark
I think the real deal here is how any given rod can be a dog in one guy's hand and a gem in anothers. It Really doesn't have anything to do with how much it costs and how good it should be, but rather its what works best in my hands. Sometimes what rocks in my hand is a $1000.00 rod, sometimes it's a $500.00 rod, and sometimes it's a 250.00 rod. This is why I have rods all across the price range from many different manufacturers. Ive casted that rod and I don't like it, not because it's a bad rod but rather because it doesnt suit me.
BTW, TFO Deer Creek 5/6 12'6 is a absolutely joy stick to cast... $349.95 what a deal! Great work Mr. Mike Kinney!
 
#8 ·
Agree; if your vibes match a medium speed spey rod, the DH 7130 is a huge bargain, useable in all seasons, with most fly sizes (with a suitable line, of course).

Idaho Steel: Yes, the St. Croix does have a too-thick, too short lower grip. Can't help the too-short aspect, but I filed and sanded down the lower grip of mine, which was my first spey rod.
 
#14 ·
I have the same St Croix rod. I fished it for a long time and caught many fish with it but I don't use it much any more. Like has been stated by other folks here each rod will match or not match the feel you look for in a rod. Price is not the determining factor. There are so many more choices today than when I started, it is mind boggling. A feel and price point for all.
 
#19 ·
I like my TR6126 for the Sandy and now the Grande Ronde. I also like my Deer Creek 8/9 13'6 which was my first Spey rod. Set it up with a scandi line for the Clearwater. Both bought used here or Spey Pages, I think $200 or so for the TR and $225 for the TFO. I haven't really tried any of the more expensive rods yet. Waiting till can afford it, but rather save for a drift boat of raft.
 
#22 ·
There are so many choices on the market right now in the lower price point (say $250.00 to $350.00) 2-handers all of which have decent actions that it is fairly easy for someone to get into spey casting with a decent rod without spending $1,000.00 plus for the rod and a line. And as had been said, unless the rod is lined with a line that works well withing the grain window the rod was designed for, it will not perform all that well regardless of how much it cost. Also, if the rod's action and "feel" when casting doesn't suit the individual casting it, it will never satisfy and will be a poor choice for him.

That said, the high-end rods have more than cosmetics that set them apart, just like the Ferrari (or a Corvette,Porsche, or Viber) has more than top speed and "status/price" that sets it(them) apart from the Fords, Toyotas, Hondas, etc. that most folks drive. And the high-end rods won't be cast to (or close to) their potential by the vast majority of spey casters, just like the Ferrari, Corvette, Porsche, Viber, etc., would not be driven to (or close to) their potential by the vast majority of drivers. Despite the protestations many often make, their is much difference between a high-end 2-hander and the low-priced ones. Otherwise, the tournament spey casters (who are among the best spey casters in the world) would be casting these lower-priced rods. The tournament spey casters all use high-end rods and many of them are modified to better suit the individual for a reason-better performance.

Idaho Steel,

I agree the St. Croix Imperial 2-handers are decent rods. The 9140 is a good, solid casting and fishing rod that was sold at an excellent price. However, I don't consider it to be a fast rod at all. Yes, it has a fairly stiff butt, but the tip and middle sections of the rod bend into the butt when casting and its recovery from being bent is moderate, not fast. I noticed you overload your with the 10/11 Delta, which makes it bend even further when cast than when it is lined with an 8/9 Delta (the line I prefer on it, although the rod really is too slow and flexible for my tastes). Different strokes for different folks is all this is.

Wadecalvin,

I currently own a Redinton RS4 7133 and although it is a nice casting rod with the stiffer tip and fast recovery I like, it isn't in the same league as the T&T 7130, T&T 8130, Loomis 13' 8/9 wt. and other similar high-end rods. And even these rods aren't the same as a custom rod or blank Burkheimer or Meiser that were modified by the maker to suit your prefered rod action. I bought this rod used to replace a Loomis 13' 8/9 GLX I had to sell a few years ago when I had been unemployed for over 2 years. However, I'm not very fond of it because it isn't in the same league as the high-end rods I mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the RS4 rods are OK and decent casting rods that most people would be very happy with for many, many years. If just miss the performance of the Loomis, T&T, Burkheimer, and Meiser. I will quit using it and sell it once I get the money saved to buy Meiser 13'er because the Meiser is a far better casting rod and that Meiser will modify to the action I prefer.

I prefer a stiff-tipped rod that is a now quite mid-flex for most distances cast with a fast to very fast recovery to straight after the cast and that has a nice moderately stiff butt. I've not found this action in any of the lower priced 2-handers, although some the TFO Deer Creek rods come close. This means for me to get the rod action I perfer and that works best for me, I have to buy a high-end rod. And not all high-end rods have this action I prefer because they have a too flexible tip or bend too deeply when cast.
 
#23 ·
I prefer a stiff-tipped rod that is a now quite mid-flex for most distances cast with a fast to very fast recovery to straight after the cast and that has a nice moderately stiff butt. I've not found this action in any of the lower priced 2-handers, although some the TFO Deer Creek rods come close. This means for me to get the rod action I perfer and that works best for me, I have to buy a high-end rod. And not all high-end rods have this action I prefer because they have a too flexible tip or bend too deeply when cast.
Great post! FT.

Agree your points. I am a fan of Meiser MKS action too!
The TFO Deer Creek action is really close to the MKS action and fast recovery speed. I was amazed how fast the blank recovered despite the cheaper price!

Another extremely fast recovery and mid-flex rod that has surprised me is the SAGE TCX switch rods. It seems the company can modify any taper they want by using those extremely fast recovery materials.

Mark
 
#28 ·
It might surprise most people that some of the tournament rods are not super stiff but rather are full flex action.
I have fished with both my 15ft and 18ft tounament rods and they do just fine and as for lines I use the same for fishing and casting.
The Daiwa that Steve used was......a full flex action rod, at the time it was one of the rods that would full flex but not break as Steve is a powerful caster.
 
#32 ·
Bruce,

Absolutely right on regarding the myth about so-called tournament rods not being fishing rods! All a person has to do is get to cast one of Carron's superb 18' "tournament rods" to see that the best 2-handed "tournament" or "casters" rods aren't as stiff as a broom handle and that they would very nicely indeed for a days fishing. And like you, I fish regularly with my 16' 11 wt T&T and 18' 12 wt Loomis rods.

Klickrolf,

By-the-way, the Carron rods are among the most expensive 2-handed rods in the world and they have accounted for nearly all the spey casting distance championships the last 7 years of so. But broom sticks they are not, nor are they extreme full-flex rods like the old Sage 9140 Brownie or the CND Expert series rods. But then again, if a person has very limited experience casting a limited number of different rods from different rod makers, it is easy to make this mistake.
 
#33 ·
Thanks for your input FT. Never meant to suggest that tournament rods couldn't be good fishing rods but really, who uses an 18' rod for fishing, maybe a few but I'd wager very few. Thought this was about "blue collar" spey rods. You've just stated Carrons are the most expensive, not blue collar...

Even a 15' rod is rarely used. If I push my old Daiwa 15' Jim Love speycaster I'm in the trees on the far bank. Fishing and tournament casting are two different things. I don't doubt your Carron rods are great casting rods. I usually fish 13' rods but have never seen or heard of one used in a tournament. Thought this was about about fishing rods, no disrespect intended. I'm no fast taper enthusiast as a matter fact I'm the opposite. The Daiwa tapers are the best I've found for fishing...hope the Carrons are equal...should be much better at the price.
 
#46 ·
Despite the trend of short heads and rods, 15 ft rods are still popular on large rivers where long lines are used. The long rods have little to do with casting distance in these applications. QUOTE]

Long lines and long rods?...little to do with distance in these applications...

Excuse me but distance is the only reason one uses a long rod and a long line (long belly line assumed).
 
#35 ·
On the Clearwater and Snake I like to fish behind the short rod guys with my 16, 17, or 18ft rods and with these rods, it is all about the distance!
You can cast really far and hook lots of fish if you cast at the right angle. The fly is fishing is soon as it lands and no mending.
 
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