Box is stocked! (sort of)

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Brandon4455, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. Lue Taylor

    Lue Taylor Lue Taylor/dbfly

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    GAT that Davy Wotton setup in diagram looks like I would be spending time untangling leader not fishing I'll stick to my swivel I like to used non beaded flies too
     
  2. shaker jake

    shaker jake Member

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    One day last year I used three rods with indicators. I use 10 feet of 12 lb fluoridation, a size 14 black swivel, and then 4 or so feet of 4x topper material. Two of the rods had flies attached. The third rod did not. All 3 swivels were set at the same depth. After counting more than 20 grabs total on the three rods, the score was flies 20+ and swivel only 0.

    I therefore think that black swivels are seldom feeding targets. Silver rings are another matter.
     
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  3. Sinkline

    Sinkline Active Member

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    Hi Gene, I'll share my thoughts about the use of swivels, but understand I am in no way suggesting that my way of thought about this method is the, "end all" method. It's just what I have evolved too with experimentation over time. From comments on a similar thread here recently, it's clear that other successful vertical presentation anglers employee slightly different methods.

    For me, when I fish vertical my highest priority is to see the bite. Not all bites result in a bobber plunging for the depths! In fact (as observed in gin clear water), sometimes fish will, "lick", "taste", "test" the pattern by swimming up to it, stopping, swimming around the pattern, then sometimes suck it in, then spit it right back out only to continue the process over and over until either losing interest, or deciding to eat it. The best chance of hooking fish that "work" your pattern is to visually see that it's happening in the first place.

    So, with the above paragraph in mind, I strive to build my setup to give me the best chance of detection from those light biting fish. My thought is that while fishing vertical the angler has the best chance of detecting the bite if the leader is held as taut, and vertical as possible. Any coiling affect in the leader will lead to light bites not being seen by the angler. If there is any current (and there is in some "stillwater" situations), or when fishing perpendicular to the wind then the leader and pattern are pulled at an angle, and bounced around with inconsistent slack created in the leader. The best chance of keeping the leader taut, and as close to vertical as possible is by weighting the leader. Swivels are a clean way of adding the weight. Swivels allow good tie points, are strong and durable for their size, and allow a method of creating a leader system that is modular depending on the knots you build your system with.

    I don't choose to build as much weight as I could into my patterns. My feeling is the fish are more likely to hold onto the pattern longer if the pattern is as light as possible, yet perform like I need them to. Some weight is of course necessary to keep the tippet taut.

    As for the bobber, (indicator if you like) I like the bobber to be small enough to absorb some of the wave action and dampen the bounce at the pattern when the chop gets a little tall. I also feel that on a good take the fish are less likely to let go of the pattern as quickly (were talking nano-seconds) with less resistance felt by pulling the bobber under. In other words, giving me the best chance to react and strike on the take.

    So here is my summary of a setup that works well for ME. Bobber just large enough to float my rigging but that rides low in the water. Heavy swivel to keep the main length of leader taut & vertical. Brass bead patterns (not tungsten & lead) to keep the patterns lighter and more animated in small chop.

    I can't prove any of what I say to be an absolute fact. I do what I do based on much experimentation and what works for me, nothing more.

    Here is the type swivel I like to use. If we are counting respected anglers who also use this style swivel you can count Chan as one. Of course, Chan, Rowley, and others in the industry have to take care of the sponsors in their media work, but what they actually use may be a different story.

    If I had to guess, I would say the great majority of anglers using swivels in their leader setups DO NOT use as heavy of swivels as I do. Fair enough?

    Rolling Barrel Swivel
    http://p-line.com/tackle/swivels/hi-speed-rolling-trebel

    Bye the way Gene, since you are an Oregonian, know that the use of swivels are illegal in Oregon's "Fly Fishing Only" waters. I called and discussed this with a State Trooper. He consulted with ODFW, & other game enforcement then called me back with the answer that swivels would be against the law in Fly Fishing Only waters.



    Randy
     
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  4. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Randy, I do know that they can not be used in FF only fisheries in Oregon. Most likely, that's why I never started using swivels.

    I thought there was some magical advantage to using swivels that I couldn't figure it out.. evidently it is an alternative to adding some manner of weight so I now I think I get it.

    I suppose if the bobber system I use didn't work for me, I'd look into using swivels but to tell you the truth, when using a bobber, I prefer the use of one fly and if I'm not fishing FF only waters, I'll use one of the small split shot... I have no trouble casting split shot .... guess that comes from using the stuff as often as I do when steelhead fishing :D

    Thanks for all the replies. Now I think I get it. Chances are, I'll stick with my knots and small split shot if needed... I'm too set in my ways to change a set up just for the hell of it when I can see no advantage. :p

    (BTW: when you're bobber fishing, you're sitting and watching more often than you are casting so what's the big deal about casting tiny split shot? If you're casting so often that you're worried about the effects of split shot -- you're not properly bobber fishing :))
     
  5. Sinkline

    Sinkline Active Member

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    For me, my swivel setup is reusable and consistent with regard to placement of components (I have OCD). I tie loop-to-loop for all connections down to the flies themselves (2-flies majority of the time). At the end of the day (if I'm heading home) I diassemble all my leader components and place each section in a marked little zip-lock bag. I have main leaders pre-built (looped) in graduated lengths to cover different water depths. I have my tippet that runs below my swivel pre-cut, looped on one end, and bagged. I have pairs of patterns pre-tied together and bagged. I have my three different swivel sizes bagged. If I break-off, or get tangled-up and have to rebuild my setup, I can get it done very quickly.

    Look up, "anal" in the dictionary and you will see my picture there. :)


    Randy
     
  6. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    NO KIDDING! I was going to ask you about the dictionary but you answered already.

    You are WAAAAY too organized :)
     
  7. DennisE

    DennisE Topwater and tying.

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    Nobody's mentioned one advantage of having a swivel or small split-ring above your tippet and flies, but below your bobber. It will act as a stopper and help to prevent the loss of the peg if you end up breaking off your fly rigging. Works great as long as your leader is heavier than your tippet (and you tie good knots;)).
     
  8. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Hmmmm..... perhaps I should be using a snap swivel with my sinking lines and WBs... it would add a bit more weight at the end of the tippet material and make changing of patterns much easier.

    Maybe I should write an article on the tactic... :D


    Seriously, now you guys have made me curious. I'll stop by BiMart and pick up some black swivels (and maybe some black snap swivels for my upcoming article :) ) to carry in my Stillwater fishing vest... just in case I want to try the technique. I think using removable split shot would be easier to move up and down the tippet material but I'll give the swivels a try just the same.
     
  9. Brandon4455

    Brandon4455 Bobber Down!

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    thanks for chiming in to explain randy.Like i said i don't really know what im talking about anyways! i just know it works so ive never really questioned it.