Call of the wild

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Alex MacDonald, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Peyton00

    Peyton00 Active Member

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    LOL. The new age american male. Tough as nails.... fingernails that is.
     
  2. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    Dude , can you hook me up with whatever you are smokin
     
  3. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast la flama blanca

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    Guns: bad.
    Wolves: good.
    Got it.
     
  4. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    Clearly you miss the point of the analogy. no matter what you think, wolves were NOT part of the ecosystem for over a century. Any attempt to "reintroduce" them constitutes an introduction of a (now) invasive species. And in the jungle, a little kitten can rip the living shit out of you.
     
  5. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    I DO have experience with wolves, having encountered them more than once both in the lower 48 and elsewhere. Singularly, they aren't much of an issue, but pack them up, get them hungry, and they're bad news with a decent ability to solve problems and cooperate. They also can mate with Eastern Coyotes, producing a hybrid. These hybrids were implicated in the attack and killing of a young Canadian singer two years ago in Ontario. They've also attacked and killed people in Alaska.
     
  6. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    Alex, I don't think anyone who studies the problem of invasive species would accept your definition. Local extirpation is not the same as extinction. A relatively few generations does not provide time for the ecosystem to evolve sufficiently for the returning species to have the same relative role as an introduced alien species might. Reintroduction is an ecological management tool used for many species in many habitats and doesn't even approach the definition of 'invasion.'

    As an aside, your estimation in an earlier post of 1-year generation times for wolves is a significant underestimation; age to potential first reproduction (ca. 2 years in female wolves) doesn't equal generation time. That is a calculation that entails age of parents, clutch size, etc., and pack animals like wolves, where dominant individuals produce most of the offspring for many years, means that wolves probably have effective generation times of 4-5 years or more. Similarly, for animals like elk, which exhibit dominant male mating with harems of cows, the generation time is probably somewhere in the vicinity of 5 years +/- (cows can't calf before age 2 and bulls rarely achieve dominance until age 3-4 years and may maintain that dominance for 5-8 years). So, the time in generations, since wolves were extirpated in most of the western US, is probably no more than ca. 20 wolf or elk generations. Not enough to register any evolutionarily significant change. That's why elk behavior has reverted so quickly to be like what it was before wolves were extirpated.

    The benefit to the rest of the ecosystem's health, everything from vegetation recovery, stream ecology, and increasing populations of raptors, of the return of a keystone species, in this case, the wolf, is a tremendous boon to western ecosystems (GAT, if you're reading, this is probably the best answer to your question of the benefit resulting from the return of wolves).

    Dick
     
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  7. Vladimir Steblina

    Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

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    Well, that's a good thing. I am tired of feeding expensive cats to coyotes around here. We have started picking up "lost/found" cats since they are much cheaper.

    If wolves wipe out coyotes, what's the deal on dogs??

    Hey, those mule hunting clothes look good. Those bibs in particular.
     
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  8. Krusty

    Krusty Krusty Old Effer

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    I live immediately adjacent to Riverside State Park...there's a six foot fence in my back yard, and I see coyotes most every night...in a stare-down with my two cattle dogs. There's a lightpost down the street that always has lost pet signs on it. Outside cats don't last long....I've found cat haunches and collars out there.
     
  9. SteveA

    SteveA Gnu to the board

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    Looks like wolves in small numbers may have been here all along. Additionally, wolves have not been introduced into WA state. They have been migrating here of their own volition, suggesting that the habitat is naturally supportive. Read on to learn of the numerous (i.e. both of them) wolf-caused human fatalities in the last 60 years.

    " Wolves were once common throughout most of Washington, but declined rapidly from being aggressively killed during the expansion of ranching and farming between 1850 and 1900. Wolves were eliminated as a breeding species from the state by the 1930s, although infrequent reports of animals continued in the following decades, suggesting that small numbers of individuals continued to disperse into Washington from neighboring states and British Columbia."

    http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/

    Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD
     
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  10. Freestone

    Freestone Not to be confused with freestoneangler

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    In 1975, a successful wolf hunt was organized after a rancher near Mansfield, WA (Jameson & Grimes Lake area) lost some cattle. The 110 lb wolf was found and shot and it stirred up a shit storm. Two guys stood trial for transporting and dumping the carcass in BC.
     
  11. shotgunner

    shotgunner Anywhere ~ Anytime

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    Same stance was taken in my home state of MI. Supposedly 5 crossed Lake Superiors ice from Isle Royal ..and that was their new era foot hold.

    Maye it's true / maybe not.. but there can be no argument about the thousands of man hours, State & Federal, that were invested into them [read 'baby-sat'] Doubtfull they'd have ever survived, pro-created, and flourish with out it.
     
  12. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    The wolves in Oregon were not reintroduced by design... they arrived here from Idaho... where they were reintroduced by design.

    Wolves have no concept of borders, national or state.
     
  13. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    I just got back from 4 days of no bandwidth and found four pages of happy horse-pucky about this. Tim, congratulations, you're my new hero. Damned if you didn't hit the nail on the head with this statement. My sentiments exactly...!
     
  14. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    Well, that's a good thing. I am tired of feeding expensive cats to coyotes around here. We have started picking up "lost/found" cats since they are much cheaper.

    I wish the coyotes around my place would eat the cat that shits in my garden and sits on my trucks hood every nite.
     
  15. Vladimir Steblina

    Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

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    In our case, cats are working animals. They are there to eat mice and rats.

    If your problem is a cat that "defecates" in your garden......life is good.