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Casting problem: Line piled up when shooting lines

2K views 25 replies 15 participants last post by  David Loy 
#1 · (Edited)
Sorry if this is not the right place to post this ....

When I shoot lines out, with or without double-haul, the first few feet of lines do not extend out properly. They pile up on the water, sometimes even form a knot.

This is what happened: At the last forward cast, the loop unfolds in the air. When the loop has fully unfolded and the line becomes straight, the force of reaction kicks in and pulls the line back. When the line is pulled back, slacks/ripples form on the first few feet of the line, and thus it lands on the water like a snake --- I'm talking about the first few, like 10, feet of the line; the rest is perfectly straight.

I know that if I'm not shooting lines out, I can reduce the power of my last cast, and thus reduce the force of reaction. But when shooting lines, I can't reduce the power because it defeats the purpose of shooting lines.

Does anybody have the same problem? (Supposedly everybody will have this problem; Newton says force of reaction is always there.) Any way to remedy this?

Thank you in advance.

(The said "ripples" won't appear during false casts. Because when the loop fully unfolds, you will begin the back cast. This will straighten out the line before ripples have a chance to form.)
 
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#2 ·
Try setting the resistance on your reel low enough that it can spool a little bit of line off instead of just abruptly stopping and piling up. Or just have more line out so that it never comes tight before the fly hits the water. I feel like you should be able to slow your cast down though. You can still shoot line without slamming it so hard that it that its ripping away all the line you have out before the fly is near the water.
 
#12 ·
This happens with two-handers as well and is caused by over powering your front cast for the amount of line you're casting. Slow your front stroke down. If this is difficult (which it probably will, as it sounds like it's a habit now), intentionally try to under power your cast until you find the sweet spot for the amount of line you're tossing.

Are you getting a lot of tailing loops too? Wind knots?
 
#13 ·
Okay, after having my problem written down in words, I began to see things more clearly, and thus a theory to "debug" came to mind:

One needs to apply power on two places when casting: one is on the arm, and the other the wrist. The latter is what forms the loop, and, eventually, unfolds the loop. The ripples form because too much power from the wrist, and thus too much force of reaction after it has fully unfolded. So what one should do is still apply full power to the arm to achieve maximum distance, but just enough power on the wrist, so that it's enough to fully extend the line, but not too much to let the tip of the line bounce back.

Make sence? It does, to me. :)
 
#14 ·
As is so often the case with casting it's a matter of adjusting the amount of force and the timing of the application of that force. Try shooting small amounts of line and adjusting the amount of force (both of your forward cast and the "haul") until the line lays out smoothly and straight. Lowering your rod tip at the finish of the forward cast will help as well. If I am interpreting your description correctly you must be allowing the line at the end of the "shoot" to come tight against a relatively upright rod which results in the line and leader bouncing back against the spring of the rod.
 
#16 ·
Tailing loops are caused by improper timing when applying force, ie, you're forward cast has too much power too soon. This causes the rod tip to dip mid stroke rather than stay in a straight line. Here's a good visual and article that shows what your rod tip is doing.

http://www.getemwet.com/2013/07/simple-fix-for-tailing-loop.html

Improper application of force will also cause the "dog running to the end of his chain" situation you're describing above.
 
#18 ·
Back down the power.. You can also pull out more running line and it will shoot farther, if you want more distance...

The slack line cast you're describing is a pile cast. Great for dry fly presentation!
 
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#19 · (Edited)
I had a similar issue except instead of bouncing back and piling up, I would get kicks to either the left or the right. Not exactly great with the last ten feet of line with a 6ft wide stream.

I was told it was because I was reaching at the end of the cast, and sure enough, if I kept my elbow more anchored to my side, I had a lot more oomph in my loop. Something to try anyway.
 
#20 · (Edited)
When I shoot lines out, with or without double-haul, the first few feet of lines do not extend out properly. They pile up on the water, sometimes even form a knot.

This is what happened: At the last forward cast, the loop unfolds in the air. When the loop has fully unfolded and the line becomes straight, the force of reaction kicks in and pulls the line back. When the line is pulled back, slacks/ripples form on the first few feet of the line, and thus it lands on the water like a snake --- I'm talking about the first few, like 10, feet of the line; the rest is perfectly straight.
No one has posted my solution yet so here it is. The solution is very easy. When I show this solution to fly casters, it becomes an "Ah Ha" moment.

We know you are overshooting the line and getting line recoil because there is excess energy in your cast.

I bet that the cause is that you drop the line when you shoot.

I almost never do unless I want extreme distance. I use the O-ring method that Gary Borger taught me.

When you shoot line, place the tip of your thumb and index finger together to make a ring. This ring becomes an extra line guide for your line. But it is a line guide that you control. Close the ring and you have the line in your hand, open the ring and you can shoot the line. By opening and closing this ring, you can control the amount of line you shoot. It has the additional benefit, that when the fly lands, you immediately have line control and you are not grabbing for the loose line after the cast.

The 0-ring allows me to "feather" the energy in my cast so it lands on the target.

When my cast needs to be spot on, I cast with some extra energy. Then I scrub off that extra energy by closing the O-ring to create line friction. This slows down the overshoot of the leader and the fly will fall on target. This takes some practice but it helps in accuracy. You can drive the fly but then feather it so it falls on target.

It is exactly the same thing a spin fisher or casting rod fisher does when they put put their thumb on the spool of a casting reel to slow the outgoing line, or the spin fisher putting their index finger against the lip of the spool to feather the cast.

The analogy I use when teaching fly casting is that you would not be able to park a car without both an accelerator and a brake. Placing a fly accurately is like parking a car. Use the rod as the accelerator and your line hand to "brake" the cast so that the fly lands gently on the water at the exact distance you want.

After the shoot, you can immediately place the line under the index finger of your rod hand and use your off hand to strip in the line from behind your rod hand. Now you have complete control of the rod and line.

One other tip. When you shoot line, you should keep some space between your line hand and your rod hand. You need to keep the two separated or else there is the chance that the line you shoot will wrap around the reel. This is a common cause of line fouling even for shooters that drop the line.

I was taught to cast by Gary Borger and the O-ring shoot was a mandatory lesson. It is explained by Jason Borger in his Blog. A hard "check" with the O ring at the end of the cast can also help perform the "tuck" cast that beginners find so difficult.

http://fishfliesandwater.com/2011/06/28/o-ring-method-shooting-line/
 
#21 ·
Try gently applying the brakes with your line hand. I shoot line out of my hand, except when all I care about is distance. I get total control of the way my loop turns over, and it helps sneak flies right against cover.

So yeah, what Silvercreek said lol (I should read all the posts!)
 
#22 ·
QUOTE="silvercreek, post: 975430, member: 21519"]No one has posted my solution yet so here it is. The solution is very easy. When I show this solution to fly casters, it becomes an "Ah Ha" moment./[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for this tip. Actually, I've developed the same technique to control the distance. I'd make the O-Ring tighter or looser to increase or reduce the friction on the line. I use it to control the distance, But when come to think of it, yes, it might make the piling up better. Thank you!
 
#24 ·
I think the posts about applying too much power too soon in the forward stroke and about the "O-ring" are valid. One other idea related to those is that this premature straightening and recoil can also occur when the shooting head and leader get too short relative to the distance they are being cast. Longer casts generally require longer heads and leaders in order for the loop to unroll more slowly and smoothly.

PS these squiggles and recoils do seem more pronounced with polyurethane lines, especially in cold water and in cold weather.
 
#26 ·
Lots of good advice here. Just to throw out another possible factor. The belly unrolls straight partly because it has weight, more than the forward taper and leader. Any spool coiling in this front section can show up in the final delivery. Try stretching the front 10 feet of line, and straightening the leader. Along with the other advice of course. You're a student of the cast. That will reward.
 
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