Hey all. Just was wondering if I could get some input on which of the many casting techniques for big rivers I would be best served learning? I really can only standard cast, steeple, and a really ugly roll cast having lived in Utah/Virginia fishing smaller waters. I know it's opinion to a large degree, but having met a number of guys on here who are very knowledgable I thought I would look to get some personal insight.
You ABSOLUTELY need to learn to double haul. You wontbe doing much big river fishing without it.
If youre serious about big river fishing...I HIGHLY RECCOMEND a 2 handed rod. I resisted for years, and kickedmyself for it the 1st day I had the 2 hander
Look at the kinds of rivers you'll be fishing. Most northwest rivers tend to be large, especially during the winter, and the most useful single-hand technique to be completely comfortable with is probably the double haul. Distance is not always the name of the game but, for most situations (and especially fishing the swing), it is a very valuable skill to be able to cast sixty to seventy feet consistently and comfortably. You'll likely be fishing heavy heads and large flies and finesse and delicacy counts for far less than when fishing for trout in small waters.
Steelhead don't know (or care) how you cast so these are just general tips. If your talking about a 1 handed rod, it would be helpful to know how to double haul an overhead cast as well as single haul a roll cast. It will help increase your distance. Being able to cast over either should and at a variety of angles is also useful. Single handed spey casting could be useful in situations where you have limited back casting space.
If you're using a multiple nymph setup w/an indicator you'll want to be able to cast with an open loop so you don't end up with a tangled mess. When I fish these kinds of setups I do one of two things 99% of the time. I either roll cast or when I reach the end of my drift I fling the whole thing back up river in one motion.
I will support you in learning the basic casts of single handed fishing; roll cast, single haul, double haul, shooting line etc. Distance and accuracy are achieved remarkably quickly if you find a good casting coach to work with. In my own process I turned to two handed salmon rods, (Spey Rods), and I never looked back when it came to river fishing for steelhead and salmon. The long rod is superior on our waters. Learn to cast longer bellied lines and heads first, even the old school double taper. Tthen learn the Skagit Style; using Skagit type shorter heavier heads, shorter faster action rods etc. Some good links to resources for study of equipment and technique are: www.rioproducts.com This is an extensive resource for rod and line matching, casting information etc. I like their video on spey casting by Simon Gawesworth. Also see his book "Spey casting" (Stackpole Books). For the authoritative overview on Skagit equipment and casting: www.skagitmaster.com (With special attention to master stelhead guide Ed Ward's contribution in dvd Volume #1). If you get help with your casting from a good teacher you will be better off. I can confidently recommend Aaron Reimer; His "Day on The River" casting events, held on Saturdays at Tolt River Park, have become a hub of education for spey casters of all levels. It won't be long before you will be needing these skills! http://olympicpeninsulaflyfishing.blogspot.com
'Problem' with making 'long casts' with a single hander rod is you need the same amount of clear air (for the most part) behind you. That's going to limit you to where you can fish. That said, learn some of the basic spey casts using your single hander rod. Rod don't know, the rod don't care. You won't be able to cast as far as you could with a 2hander, but you can easily do most. Only 'rod requirement' is you have an 'up-locking' reel seat so you've got an inch or two for a couple of fingers below the reel.
You don't need a 2-hander. Plenty of fish have been and are caught with a single hander.
On a recent trip I saw dudes do pretty well with a 1-hander. So many fish are close in. It's about finding water with fish way more than casting. They fished some of the smaller pieces that the 2-handers would pass. In out...zip zoom.
Having said all that I use a 2-hander exclusively. I have real bad shoulders so the 2-hander helps. I couldn't cast a single for more than a couple hours. I am gonna start bringing one though. I think some water would be fished better withthe single.
Thanks for all the very good replies. Hmmm. I'll have to do some reading from the websites that were recommended. Being as I will will only spend a year here I'm not sure I could learn the 2 hand vs 1 hand in time.
I tried the two hander thing. I went to a lot of Aaron's free classes in Carnation and also Fall City. I could do OK, but I didn't seem to enjoy it as much as I did my single hander. So I got rid of all equipment/gear I had and just stuck with my 8wt.
You can cast 70+feet on your 1st day with a 2 hander. I did. Get skagit master and watch it a few times and youve got a nice beginner base to go from. I was casting 100ft+ in my first month
daveypetey -
While it is important to be able to deliever the fly (cast a fair distance) by far the most important fly rod skill a steelheader using the fly needs is line control/mending and the ability to control speed/depth control of the fly on the swing.
Without the ability to control your line and fly during the swing casting a 120 feet does the angler virtual no good. Work on being able to consistently casting 50 to 60 feet (there has been ton of steelhead caught at those distances) and controlling the fly once you have it in the water - BTW much easier to learn the fly control game at a moderate distance than long distance. Once you are comfortable with your casting and fly control you will have a solid paltform upon which to build your steelhead "game".
IMHO - In the steelhead game way too much attention is paid by fly anglers to casting long distances and not near enough to the most critical skill needed to consistently taking steelhead no matter where the angler fishes. That of course is the ability to read the water so the majority of your effect is focused on the water most likely hold steelhead that will respond to your fly.
For steelheaders in general the trick is to be able to read the water well enough that the angler spends 90% of time fishing that 10% of the water that contains 90% of the steelhead. For those that chase steelhead with the fly that needs to be further refined so that angler spends his time fishing only that portion of the 10% of the water holding steelhead that can effectively be fished with the angler's chosen fly presentation.
daveypetey -
While it is important to be able to deliever the fly (cast a fair distance) by far the most important fly rod skill a steelheader using the fly needs is line control/mending and the ability to control speed/depth control of the fly on the swing.
Without the ability to control your line and fly during the swing casting a 120 feet does the angler virtual no good. Work on being able to consistently casting 50 to 60 feet (there has been ton of steelhead caught at those distances) and controlling the fly once you have it in the water - BTW much easier to learn the fly control game at a moderate distance than long distance. Once you are comfortable with your casting and fly control you will have a solid paltform upon which to build your steelhead "game".
IMHO - In the steelhead game way too much attention is paid by fly anglers to casting long distances and not near enough to the most critical skill needed to consistently taking steelhead no matter where the angler fishes. That of course is the ability to read the water so the majority of your effect is focused on the water most likely hold steelhead that will respond to your fly.
For steelheaders in general the trick is to be able to read the water well enough that the angler spends 90% of time fishing that 10% of the water that contains 90% of the steelhead. For those that chase steelhead with the fly that needs to be further refined so that angler spends his time fishing only that portion of the 10% of the water holding steelhead that can effectively be fished with the angler's chosen fly presentation.
I just ordered Passion for Steelhead. I think I will go through that this weekend as much as I can and then try to make a decision. Thanks all.
In the mean time I have a 9wt Orvis Salt Rod. Any line suggestions to start with? It looks like something like the SA Sharkskin Steelhead would be a good option no matter which I go. Should I line up one weight?
the Sky, Sauk, Skagit get infinitely more fishable with a 2 hand rod. think backcasting room at Reiter for example. Its not all about distance.its about fishable river miles
Yes indeed! The big stick is WAY more than just a distance machine. I know there are examples to the contrary, but IMO, the usefulness of casts beyond 60-80' is questionable. But i can throw 60' all day with my ass in the bushes with my (modestly apportioned) 2 hander.
If I lived in the NW, I might spend the money on a two hander just to learn how to do it and for casting on the bigger waters up there. However, I have caught well over 400 steelhead in my life on an old Sage 9 foot, 7 weight RPL and my newly aquired TFO BVK 9 foot, 8 weight. I tried a two hander with Jim Kerr this February and while I thought it was fun, I went back to my single hander for the rest of that day and the next. I have caught a ton of fish within 30 feet of me on well placed casts. Over the course of 24 years, I have caught well over 40 steelhead from behind the same white rock in a tailout pool on the Salmon River. I think the ones that know how to read the water will always outfish the ones who don't. I also like the better control and feel I get when my line isn't all the way across the river.
I think Ive caught over 200 steelhead with my RPL+ 9ft 8wt. Mostly summer fish. Once I got the 2 hander, I started catching fish on the fly in water I could never reach before. PLus, line control is NOT harder on a 2 hand, quite the contrary actually, as I think mending is a breeze. Sure plenty of fish are caught with 30 ft casts, 20ft casts, etc, but think of the versatility that you get from an on the water D loop and no need for 40 ft of open space behind you. ALSO, since you can pick up and relocate so much line so fast, I think your line is in the water longer. THAT means more steelhead too. Also, the ease of tossing BIG flies on HEAVY tips with ease means that you get all those deep holes and murky water fishing opportunities not possible without such heavy gear. Like "bobber" fishing? Spey rod makes it MUCH easier to lob an indicator rig out into that juicy current stream.
Theres a reason theyre so popular, and it isnt ALL just a fad.
In reality, Ill probably get a nice 5 wt spey for big streamer fishing in MT, and a 6wt spey for winter on the Trinity/Rogue and summer on the N. Umpqua and the NF Stilly.
I don't think anyone's saying two handers are a "fad",fwiw I just got one myself. If the op was staying in the Pac nw I'd highly recommend one, but for just a year I'd imagine he'd be better served taking the money he'd spend on a Spey outfit and book a guide for two days and learn where fish hold and how to fish those kinds of water.
Your 9 wt will be fine. A lot of folks use multi-tip lines. With the four 12-15' tips that come with the lines plus adding a couple of your own tips, you can cover just about any water. By your own tips, I'm talking about adding say a T-11 and T-14 that you'd make by adding loops.
You'd also be able to use this set-up for other species beyond steelhead.
Why is the one handed casting method in need of more back room? It looks like online essentially the same motion but with one hand, albeit smaller in scale.
Unless you roll cast, singlehanded casting requires all of your line to be thrown behind you. I agree with what has been offered already, but will give you my two cents. I was a diehard single hander, even when I ventured to the Clearwater in Idaho. I am a pretty decent single hand caster. I can consistently throw to 70' with a double haul. I finally give in this year and bought a two hander. With nothing more than having watched some videos, and a little bit of direction from Poppy in front of his shop with an unlined rod, I was able to go to the river and throw 40' rather comfortably. By the next afternoon I was throwing 50' and within a few more days I was comfortably throwing 60'. After just a few more days I"m up to throwing 70-75 ft consistently. While this is really no further than I can throw with my single handed rod, it is done with a fraction of the effort. I highly recommend investing in a two hander. Check the classifieds here and on the speypages forum, there has been some pretty good deals on used two handers. Good luck!
You can do them, but they're not nearly as effective. If you're rockin' an Outbound from your beach fishing adventures it's easier to get away with as well. With a single haul, you can get your fly out there well enough, but do that for an hour, especially with a sink tip and a big ol' fly, and you're done for the day.
Your 9 wt should be a fine steelhead rod. You should be able to double haul a regular forward cast to 60' and roll cast 35' with little effort if you want to make your time on the water effective without being exhausting. Sparsely dressed flies on hooks no larger than size 2 will help minimize your casting effort.
Beyond that, just fish where fish are and make decent presentations, and you're good to go.
I concur. Let's hope this lives long and gathers momentum.
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