Casting!

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by James Waggoner, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Trail, B.C., Canada.
    Yes James, I have a full sink line you can try!
     
  2. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    River Spey Scotland
    Hi Mark,
    My thats a very short statement, and not like you, can you please answer the question i asked you.

    "With your knowledge of Speycasting you must have fished and watched the Speycasters on the rivers Spey, Dee, Don, Tweed and Tay, how many times ?"

    I aint going to play ball with ya, i can't be bothered, and after your rant on another well known speycasting site perhaps you would correct the rubbish you stated about me.
    I would think it only fair if you went back and corrected your statement there, or are you already a legend in Speycasting.
     
  3. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    52
    Location:
    Boston-Idaho
    Home Page:
    Hi Gordon,

    You mean the post below?

    Which part you want me to correct? please indicate?
    Thanks!

    BTW, no, I never travel to England and Scotland, neither do I ever travel to the moon, but I know the earth is not flat ... surprise?
    Mark
    -------
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by speyghillie
    "Simon is using the traditional spey cast that goes back hundreds of years in Scotland and England and Henrik is using the scandinavian style (underhand) that goes back 50-60 years that Goran Andersson invented. Both great casts that get the job done, just different approachs."

    Both great casters i recon, just wanted to clear up a couple of points, Speycasting has no roots in England, also the underhand casting style is as old as Speycasting inself and was practiced in Scotland in the 1890's along with shooting heads and multi-tip lines.
    Nothing is really that new.
    Thanks Gordon.
    DTX Pro Staff

    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com



    HI Gordon,


    Please don't discredit Mr. Göran Andersson by misinterpret his "UNDERHAND TECHNIQUE" as one of the UNDERHAND CASTING IN GENERAL.

    I respect your effort of encouraging people to learn about the spey casting history and I applauded your posts for that regards. But please don't mis-use Underhand Technique and mixed it with your Underhand Casting styles.

    Your underhand casting style could apply to any kind of spey line casting, and probably has been used for several Centries as you mentioned that in England.

    However, what Göran Andersson really invented and innovated in casting is what he called "Underhand Technique" (I know people get confused by his term and call it as underhand casting in general).

    Briefly,
    two things set Göran Andersson's underhand technique apart from your underhand casting style.

    First, Göran cut the line to a extreme short length standard, this isn't happen before his era and this type of line isn't commercial available before him. In other words, it short line approach only been recognized by the Pubic after him.

    Second, Göran's underhand technique is not just use underhand (bottom hand) to power a two handed rod. The very important idea lie on the following casting move after the initial lift which is reposition the rod to a new casting center close to caster's body. As I mentioned before, the most important message he want to carry has been lost. The new center of casting. This casting style was resulting from the first innovention - cutting the line short, follow by more responsive blanks made by his father. Those elements all came together on time to allow him to invent his very own Underhand Tecnhique. Try to cast your long line by using Göran Andersson's Casting Center idea then you will understand why your underhand casting is different thing than Göran Andersson's Underhand Technique.

    I sincerely encourage you to read more about his casting style in his own words and please stop discredit his UNDERHAND TECHNIQUE on the public before you fully understand his casting style.

    Mark
    __________________
    yuhina.blogspot.com
     
  4. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Trail, B.C., Canada.
    Wow Mark you are becoming a legend!!!!!
     
  5. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    River Spey Scotland
    Hi Mark,
    I will give it another go, just for fun......
    You say.
    Briefly,
    two things set Göran Andersson's underhand technique apart from your underhand casting style.

    First, Göran cut the line to a extreme short length standard, this isn't happen before his era and this type of line isn't commercial available before him. In other words, it short line approach only been recognized by the Pubic after him.

    I ask ,
    Please tell me how long the silk lines in the 1900's were, ? bearing in mind the cost of silk and the distances most could cast in those days.

    Second, Göran's underhand technique is not just use underhand (bottom hand) to power a two handed rod. The very important idea lie on the following casting move after the initial lift which is reposition the rod to a new casting center close to caster's body. As I mentioned before, the most important message he want to carry has been lost. The new center of casting.

    Have you ever heard of Alexander Grant ? , or here is an easy one try Donald Rudd, probably the most prolific Speycasting author there has ever been........ but i guess he got it all wrong too.
    You still have'nt answered my question, you pose many but answer none......please try and learn the subject before you spout off all over the place, your knowledge of Speycasting is starting to show.

    I will add like i did before, i take nothing away from the great casters from around the world......... which now include the LEGEND.
    Cheers Gordon.
    DTX Pro Staff

    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com
     
  6. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Trail, B.C., Canada.
    Gordon I had offered Mark my copy of Fine and Far Off but he did not take me up on the offer.......pity!
     
  7. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    52
    Location:
    Boston-Idaho
    Home Page:
    Hi Gordon,

    Cool... No, I don't know how long the silk line runs... could you tell us? and how they make those short line and how they cast it?

    Yes, I heard about Alexandar Grant and I read some text about his cast. So he use the same casting principle like Goran Andersson? If so, I would love to see your interpretation.

    In addition, to answer your previous post, Yes, I know what article you are talking about, it has been around for several years on the internet.. see link and attach file (just in case people are interested to read it)
    http://www.bcfff.bc.ca/info/TheSpeyCastWelshThrow.pdf


    The books you mentioned before is open access online now... It's free. links below. Anyone (if interested) can read it and discuss where is the underhand casting originate from.... and just remind you, I haven't see anything like Goran's UNDERHAND TECHNIQE mentioned elsewhere... if you see it would you please indicate it to us?

    Thanks,

    BTW, just remind you this technique again:

    Göran's underhand technique is not just use underhand (bottom hand) to power a two handed rod. The very important idea lie on the following casting move after the initial lift which is reposition the rod to a new casting center close to caster's body. As I mentioned before, the most important message he want to carry has been lost. The new center of casting. (If you are not familiar with it, I will draw a diagram to help you, just let me know)

    Mark

    The book of the salmon: http://books.google.com/ebooks?id=_YEXAAAAYAAJ
    A book on angling
    http://books.google.com/books?id=WVRDAAAAIAAJ&source=gbs_slider_user_shelves_7_homepage
     
  8. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    River Spey Scotland
    Hi Mark,
    Still no answer to my Question ?????????? , well here's another one. i do believe Goran is a great caster and a real gentleman like all the masters, yourself included.
    Because you will not answer the question i asked, i will try another....... prove to me that Göran's underhand technique is new ? after all it was you who stated it, as Alexander Grant said............ PROVE IT. ............................................ and why have you dropped this bit if it is so important, after all there is only two parts to your arguement, or is it now only one. mmmmmm

    First, Göran cut the line to a extreme short length standard, this isn't happen before his era and this type of line isn't commercial available before him. In other words, it short line approach only been recognized by the Pubic after him.


    I will carry on for a little while longer Mark, cause for a little while ...its fun.
    Please answer my Questions.
    Thanks Gordon.
    DTX Pro Staff

    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com
     
  9. inland

    inland Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2003
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    87
    Location:
    .
  10. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    52
    Location:
    Boston-Idaho
    Home Page:
    Hi Gordon,

    No, I did not drop the other one. Still two arguments. 1) extreme short line 2) center of casting position.

    I am confused what you want me to answer? care to point it out again?
    You probably missed my point... inventions and innoventions are only be assessable when it been published to the public... It can go through, media, oral transmission, or general people's consensus... When it comes to a debating about the origin. We should use those rules to figure who deserve the credit and what is the history. without evidence, it's very hard to say if he really did it? let long to use this "someone might did it" to take the credit away from Goran Andersson. In law, we don't verdit a crime without solid evidence right? even the suspect is "very likely"...
    as far as I know, this is a educational board. if you will... try to educate us about who has done it and how it's been done. Then we can open up the discussion to compare the techniques side by side and give the credit to whom he deserve it. Otherwise, I remind my point of view, Goran Andersson inverted and originated the Underhand Technique.

    Mark
     
  11. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    52
    Location:
    Boston-Idaho
    Home Page:
    William,

    I am confused... do I talk about underhand casting in general? PLease see my post #78
    All I am saying is focused on Goran's UNDERHAND TECHNIQUE. so please don't mud the water by bringing in the "underhand casting in general"
    . I am not interested in that, If you like, you can check out the original thread... "Nothing new concept" was trying knock down every aspect of spey casting technique. This is I am focusing on.

    As I said, Goran's underhand technique has several components, extreme short line, responsive blank and reposition the casting center.ALL come together to make it work... I think you agree with that, then it get popularized, so please don't argue with me by talking about piece of this and piece of that information...

    BTW, we are in different channels to talk about the "little pull down", this is irrelevant to our discussion, so no response from me on this one. Don't get carry over, William... focus on the subject please.


    Mark
     
  12. Brian Thomas

    Brian Thomas Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    132
    Location:
    Kamloops B.C
    Gordon , I hate to de-rail a good pissing match , but reading your posts reminded me of a technique I heard you explain in Chilliwack a few years ago . I believe you called it the "bump" , and you said , if I remember correctly , that it was done during the lift . Sound familiar ? If so , could you please explain the technique again ?
     
  13. speyghillie

    speyghillie speyghillie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    River Spey Scotland
    Hello my friends,
    Brian, i will explain to you i promise, but there is nothing on TV and i am quite enjoying the pissin match, ok Yuhina part one... you say

    First, Göran cut the line to a extreme short length standard, this isn't happen before his era and this type of line isn't commercial available before him. In other words, it short line approach only been recognized by the Pubic after him.
    I say Bollocks, silk lines were made really really short and in fact people like Alexander Grant had to splice two of the longer ones to get a half decent cast, which was even then not far, and this is documented in many history books, if you did some research you know this to be FACT.

    Second
    you say
    Göran's underhand technique is not just use underhand (bottom hand) to power a two handed rod. The very important idea lie on the following casting move after the initial lift which is reposition the rod to a new casting center close to caster's body. As I mentioned before, the most important message he want to carry has been lost. The new center of casting.

    I say bollocks, because after the initial lift he repositions the rod to a new casting centre closer to his body, i can tell you that hand position rod position have all been tried before.
    How many Speycasting Insructors have you watched in person Yuhina ?
    Cheers Gordon.
    DTX Pro Staff

    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com
     
  14. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    52
    Location:
    Boston-Idaho
    Home Page:
    Hi Gordon,

    You still miss the point...

    let me put this straight forward...

    People invented engine, invented glider wing... and one day someone say, hey... let's put them together so it can fly longer and become navigable... it's call airplane!

    Guess what? you said, no no no.... engine has been invented, glider has been invented... so airplane can't be invented... Funny Huh... but this is your logic... harsh, but true.

    Mark
     
  15. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    .....poop.......