Catch and Release???

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by troutpounder, May 5, 2012.

  1. rory

    rory Go Outside

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    I like to let my fish go as well.
     
  2. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast la flama blanca

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    I'll keep hatchery steelhead, hatchery kings (the rare times I can catch one), hatchery silvers, and wild silvers. Plus a couple of humpies when they're around.
    Now and then I'll keep stocker trout from a lake if they're big enough to not be all bones. So far this spring I've kept one 5-fish limit of 13" rainbows and a few other 15" trout. I recently found a lake that seems to have a good perch population and if I can get a bunch of them that are big enough to be worthwhile, I'll keep 'em.
     
  3. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    The opportunity for another angler to catch the fish is one benefit. Just to be clear, I'm not against harvesting hatchery fish anymore than I would be against harvesting wild (unclipped) fish if their is ample population of them to do so. But just to say I'm going to club it because it was raised in a hatchery is not something I support.
     
  4. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Freestoneagler will not come up with any evidence to support his position. I don’t believe he really has a position. I believe his intent is only to stir to pot for personal reasons. He takes a contradictory position to what may be perceived as the majority of board participant’s view and then paints those members with as broad a brush as he can to elicit as much response as possible. I don’t think there is any genuine concern for steelhead, hatchery or wild on his part. It is merely a game to set himself apart from the rest of the board and boost his self-esteem.
     
  5. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    You only discount my position because it does not align with you and the choirs idealist position (this is eerily similar to other discussion topics involving a certain group of folks who have zero tolerance for varying points of view). My position is that hatchery fish, whose origin is hybridized wild fish, can co-exist with non-hatchery origin stocks and vice-versa...as they have been for a long time. The evidence is swimming in the water you wade in. Is it the ideal scenario?... no, of course not, but it is the reality we live in, whether one chooses to accept it or not.

    I've read a crap pile of the studies and reports concerning the wild vs. hatchery debate and they are laced full of qualifier's such as; "the data suggests", "might", "could", "possibly", "would seem to indicate". How much is absolute truth, politically motivated, or best guess is unknown. I run FEA stress models as part of my job and we routinely find ourselves off course, despite what we thought to be solid empirical data...it's why we design redundant systems on aircraft.

    If we go your route and close all supplemental stock productions and the species goes extinct, what will be your response to that? (please don't tell me it's G.W. Bush's fault).

    As for my concern for fisheries, I've been actively involved in fishery enhancement projects dating back to 1986 and have listed them in prior threads. As I recall, some of the choir summarily dismissed those efforts because they did not align with the teaching's...and you know, I'm OK with that :D.
     
  6. CurtisS

    CurtisS Member

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    I think hatcheries are an important part of a management, not the ideal situation as you said, but important. The point i'm trying to make is when it comes to steelhead, not stocker trout in lakes, its not even an issue of them co existing because the hatchery fish, by design, aren't suppose to exist freely in the system! the perfect hatchery fish from a management perspective leaves the pens and goes sea ward without competing with native sticks for food, then returns to the river directly to the hatchery without spawning with wild fish,obviously this doesn't happen, but thats what they are designed to do. To say that you support killing wild fish as much as hatchery fish when they are in the same abundance is ludicrous. Wild fish have a purpose, that is to spawn, and produce offspring. Hatchery fish don't have this purpose, they are a man made institution specifically put in the river to take pressure off wild fish, to be harvested.

    You call us idealists, but you think that hatchery fish are the equal of wild fish, that they are somehow the same because hatchery fish originate from wild fish. That is idealistic. Here in the real world, man's attempt to create a duplicate race of wild fish results in an animal that is less hardy, has lower survival rates in the wild, and is significantly less diverse genetically. These fish should be harvested, as is their purpose, before they are allowed to weaken the genetic stability of the wild stock they share the river with.
     
  7. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    Some 15 years ago on the Kalama river in Washington they did a genetic survey of the returning steelhead when they had the blockage for fish and could seperate the "wild" - "native" fish from the stocked steelhead. They took all surrounding genetic genes from most hatcheries along the coast to compare with returning steel so if wonderers came to the river they could tell! this article I think was in salmon trout steelheader mag. they found one only one native fish that did not have hatchery genes in it's DNA I ask so what did this fish spawn with. I have tried to find the article archives before and couldn't but why is this not mentioned ever in this big debate of hatchery versus wild-native fish. wait you all changed the wording to "wild" and never use the word native. wild to me means "hatchery high-bred" formed by hatcheries with hatchery strain "DNA" so now you all say wild "hatchery dna" fish will do better without hatchery planting so all fish will spawn naturally and be better genetically even though dna studies proved most if not all are hatchery DNA, I don't get it- hatcheries mean more fish to me to fish for nothing more nothing less. Oregon has had rivers "wild only" for over a decade and they don't have returns of 10,000 fish and never will, they just turned into select fisheries for catch and release witch takes out 90 percent of the fishing population that pays for the studies and allows for the money to do other things in all the northwest. if you don't want hatchery fish close all your rivers and quit fishing until the population of "wild" fish is enough to fish over like a return of 7000 fish or so. but you might not be able to fish at all for the next 20 or 50 years or so. I hate these debates about wild-hatchery steelhead.

    On Oregons sandy river they quit stocking hatchery skamania run steel and that run was one of the best on the whole west coast if you ask me. now they have a season to try and wipe out the summer runs that made they're own "wild-run" these fish fight harder and stay in the river longer then any winter fish. there is no comparison to the wild winter fish and the skamania fish for fight and table fair yet ODFW quit stocking them. and are trying to wipe them out. the winter brood-stock program is even being attacked when it has proven effective to return multible year class fish in the 20 pound and over range. but that's not good enough for the native fish gurus so they sued. I support hatchery fish and brood stock programs and always will, I have released hundreds of hatchery fish over the years in hopes some little boy or girl catches them up river. because I can and will " IT'S MY CHOICE" everyone else has they're own choice have at it.
     
  8. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Mark,

    I don't know what appeared in the STS magazine about the Kalama steelhead, but your version is all wrong. I thought I had links to the Kalama River steelhead studies here, but I don't. I'll email copies to you if you want to read the science behind the Kalama steelhead.

    Sg
     
  9. BRsnow

    BRsnow Member

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    Probably depends on the source whether or not his science was wrong. These days science is paid for, no longer a decent source of proof. You really need to read all that is out there and try to piece it together between the line. BR
     
  10. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    SG,

    If the science doesn't jive with your position, insult the science and the scientist. It's easy. I mean clearly all the monied interests want to assure that the status quo goes away.

    Then project your faith based decision making process on to others.

    This whole thread would be really funny....... if it weren't so sad.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  11. BRsnow

    BRsnow Member

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    Actually I did not choose a side, am just smart enough to realize science in no longer based on the quest for truth and discovery. It is for sale, so it makes trying to figure out what is really going on difficult. BR
     
  12. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    please do - and hopefully it is the DNA study I read probably 15 years ago or even longer, thanks for the research ahead of time.
     
  13. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    I've known and spoken to enough bio's to know that in this debate your fear of bought science is misplaced.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  14. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    [quote="BRsnow, post: 736448, member: 20582
    am just smart enough to realize science in no longer based on the quest for truth and discovery. It is for sale, so it makes trying to figure out what is really going on difficult. BR[/quote]

    I would say from reading this comment, that you know very little about how scientific research is funded and conducted in this country.

    D
     
  15. BRsnow

    BRsnow Member

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    I would say from reading this comment, that you know very little about how scientific research is funded and conducted in this country.

    D[/quote]

    Actually I worked previously on gaining funding for research, have moved on in my career, but I am pretty familiar with it. BR