CHIRONOMID THREAD -

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Drifter, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    What a great thread! Thank you Mark for starting this, and for all those who have contributed so much. I have learned an awful lot from all of you. It seems obvious to me that if I want to broaden my vertical presentation success rate that I would be best served by trying to learn all of these techniques. I think as I explore different stillwaters I will encounter quirky situations where some of these techniques could be the difference between a 4 fish afternoon and a 14 fish afternoon. I find merit in all of the techniques discussed, and will try to add each method to my arsenal. Everyone prefers to do things a little differently, and for me I simply enjoy catching fish on a fly rod. I enjoy fish caught trolling just as much as fish caught on a bobber, and just as much as fish caught stripping. I love catching big fish, little fish, red fish, blue fish... I don't care. I love to fish. I love to catch fish. Beyond that, I really don't care. To each their own.

    Great flies Wabo! One thing is for sure, this thread has inspired me to tie once again. I simply cannot buy flies like the ones shown in shops that I know of. Pond, I LOVE that micro leech. I would buy the hell out of them if I could find them around here. I love the bead for getting it down quick. I fish similar patterns that I buy online, but they are just a bit different. Blue, And all the mid's on this thread are simply amazing. There is no doubt in my mind that in the near future I will be picking up some more tools and getting back at it. Thanks for all the inspiration!


    Nick
     
  2. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest

    l just tied these this afternoon while watching Oprah...
     
  3. Jay C

    Jay C Active Member

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    I have been following this thread with interest. I started fishing chironomids last year after Ira's clinic (which was great - should do that again), and have had some success. But, I was wondering how most people tie up there double fly rigs. Do you leave an extra long tag line when tying in the tippet, to the eye or hook bend of the top fly, or use a swivel to the tippet and tie to that. Thanks - I'm learning a lot.
     
  4. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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  5. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    On stillwater, I use LONG leaders so I two different ways. 1. Tie a 12" tag to the leader about 2' to 3' up from end using a Double Surgeon knot. 2. I use a Gamakatsu dropper bead (small will work up to 3X)
     
  6. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    View attachment 47847

    Nick -Here is a crappy pic of how i set-up quite often. 12# 12ft. hand tied tapered fluoro leader (fluoro sinks so it's faster) to 3 ft. of 10# fluoro tippet to the first fly then 3 ft. of 8# fluoro to the bottom fly. lengths change for depth!

    I showed a large weight so you can see it is removable, I can change split when ever i want this way. the split is at the first tippet knot, then a tungsten bead head fly, then I tie a leader on the bend of the top hook to go down to the bottom steel white bead chiro.

    When its not to windy I put enough weight on to turn the indicator peg straight-up, the indicator will lay side-ways until the flies and weight are all straight down, then the indicator will turn straight up and the peg will be pointing to the sky! This way I know when everything has sunk to depth and can tell if it get hits before its at its deepest so if need be i can adjust depth. It only takes a small split shot but does depend on how big your indicator is for how big of split to use. I also paint the bottom of the indicator black for shallow water. I've had more then one fish take the indi down while working it on super calm days. I anchor fish out of drift boat and I know i have to start tying my flies on with a loop knot but this seems to work just fine for me. Its fast and simple - just like i like things! I'm still upping my game ;-)~

    Pond I used to be able to tie fast but not any more - your oprah comment show was funny!

    Blue thanks for the package-love the drilled out peg! Do you just use a regular drill on that with small bit? I would think so. I will send a PM about the leader, seems my tapered ones would be just as stiff for turn over? Thanks again!
     
  7. WABOWMAN

    WABOWMAN Active Member

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    The rigs that you guys are talking about remind me of a dropshot rig used in bass fishing.It is used when fish are suspended in the water colum. It is tied using a polomar knot with a long tag end that is run back through the eye of the hook to make it stand out away from the line to eliminate tangals and better present the lure.I normaly has an 1/8 to 1/2 oz wieght on the bottom but i would put a jig head type lure on it.
    I could see how this kind of rig could work with 2 flies instead.You can make the bottom fly as far away from the top fly as you want just by makin the tag end as long as you wanted.
     
  8. candr

    candr Daryl

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    A couple other tips if you don't like adding heavy weight to your chironomids, micro leeches etc (and the regs allow): - add the smallest barrel swivel a few feet above your fly. It helps keep your fly from rotating slowly (happens even if you use a loop knot) and it helps sink an unweighted rig. Buy a drogue and learn to fish with it. You will look forward to fishing windy days. Its a great option to static fishing (on anchor), it lets you cover water slowly and your flies will sink effectively. UK tournament fishers use them a lot, along with washer rigs, boobies etc. Fishing with a drogue has become one of my favorite ways to fish from a boat on stillwater.
     
  9. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest

    Springtime in BC...!
     
  10. psycho

    psycho Active Member

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    Looks like American Bay to me.
     
  11. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    I've decided that I'd like to give furled leaders a try for my chironomid fishing so I started looking around at various leader sources online.

    When it comes to material, and length, what do you furled leader chironomiders prefer? From what I have read it seems that a length in the 7-8 foot range is best for stillwaters with longer tippets... What do you think?

    What about material? Nylon? Mono? Silk? Thread? Why?

    Anyone have a reliable source online for furled leaders?
     
  12. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    I make my own. I use a special Mono that is very supple. But you could use any of the material you mentioned. Nice thing about thread is it will absorb water if not treated which adds to the sink rate, but can create a little more difficulty in casting. Another choice is fluorocarbon. I make them as well but it is hard to find 2lb fluoro in bulk which is what I prefer.
    Seven foot is a good length for me on deep nymphing. I can add anothe 14' and be at a great all around depth for my waters and still be able to do a some what roll cast with it. But I also make Tenkara leaders in 10' to 12' lengths. They were a little tougher to cast on a 8' to 9' rod though.
    I try to keep the leader diameter small so that the indicator can slide easier.
     
  13. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

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    I rig my double fly rig by tying my top fly with a loop knot (I'll be looking into doing more with a swivel) and then tying another loop knot with new Tippett into the Sam top fly of about 30 inches for my bottom fly and then one mor loop knot for my bottom fly. I've found that my hook up ratio for my top fly has seriously increased by doing this.

    Pond, I am anchored as well and I prefer heavy flies because they sink faster into the zone I want to fish, and they will pull the leader and Tippett down vertical versus a slight bow with slack, increasing the reaction time to the indicator the a quicker hook set.

    I've fished Sheridan and some of those fish are monsters. I did well with green and red blood worms, white bunny leeches in shallow but next time I'm fishing more scuds, that lake is loaded with them.

    Ira
     
  14. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest

    Hi Ira,
    When fishing my home waters (Central Oregon) I am usually not in water over fifteen feet deep and often only 6 -8.... so I almost always use a chemically tapered leader with extended tippet.... one fly, no extra weight.. and a tear drop indicator that is 1/2 " at the wide spot... sometime a 3/"8 corky. I BC we always are fishing in that 18'-22' or maybe a bit more range. When in the deep water situations I would rather not use too big of a bobber or too much weight still...It just detracts from the overall experience. I am a little fart at only 5'6" and that doesn't help.
    I have weighed barrel swivels and flies....fyi.... you can take an Umpqua flyline scale which also has a "gram scale" on it.... and weigh ten of you flies in a little hook box ....deduct the weight of the box and divide by ten.... standard b.h. flies come in about .2 gram/ ea. ( I believe) .... then you can weigh a #10 barrel ( about .2 gram) also i believe..... It's been a few years .... then weigh a #7 barrel.... they are about .4 gram I believe.... you get the idea though.
    I have done trials and have found that using 20 feet of straight 3X fluro leader a #10 barrel and a standard bead head fly that it takes a bit over one minute to fully sink and go straight.... that is fast enough for me...( I'm in a slow groove anyway). If i double my weight and it now takes only 40 seconds to go straight I don't feel like I have gained much and now I would have to work a little harder turning all that over each cast...I BC we fish ten hours or more per day... always standing and casting quite a bit over the course..
    Ira I believe that you challenged my conclusions regarding the use of two flies....I think it was you.... that is totally cool of course and I respect you for it...Let me just say that there very few absolutes in our sport, I admit..... maybe it is more accurate to say what I have not found using two flies to be a net advantage....I almost always have some one fishing with me in my 16 foot boat casting side by side...... often using the identical setups even flies. One guy who I have fished with quite a bit, who is an intense, skilled angler is a true two fly guy even in BC . I have not seen him do better than me generally... almost never and I usually out fish him for whatever reason.....At Diamond where we fish shallow (6'-8') a lot he still uses two and sometimes does a little better than me there but he also foul hooks fish some too......and fiddle farts around with his setup a lot more....
    Glad to hear that you anchor up Ira......Do you fish out of a boat?....... it's all about line and leader management (both), finding fish and getting "dialed in"..... anchoring simplifies all of that greatly and provides a baseline.......plus I have been i situations many time when we stayed in the same spot for hours....those days are the best....

    Paul
     
  15. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    You don't need an anchor to stay in one spot though. I quit using them because of one or two fish that have spooled me and I have had to chace them. Plus the one or two that have swam underneath me and found that anchor rope, Yes I am talking stillwater.
    So you swivel is taking the place of a small split shot. I haven't ever tried a swivel because I am fishing straight down and suspended off the bottom.
    I have never snagged a fish deep nymphing and using multi flies. Not sure I have missed more than I would have using one, but that does happen as well.
    Different styles is all. I have started experimenting with the wash line style. Gonna take a few outtings to get that one down, but new styles are suppose to nbe fun and challenging.