CnR Wild Steelhead Mortality and NOAA 4%

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Chris DeLeone, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    Thanks for the reply Curt, I appreciate it, and p-lease excuse my little rant as I get frustrated when I read things like " a puget sound wide plan would be the preferred approach". With the steelhead in the rivers of puget sound, in varying states of disrepair, and the Nooksack with different issues than the Puyallup, how can you have a P.S. wide Plan?
     
  2. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Sorry I missed this.

    I love the reg. I do think that the % hooked would be less, especially for winter fish.

    I also think that C&R mortality is the largest red herring going. We just don't kill that many fish.

    19,
    cds
     
  3. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    Considering the OP rivers only; there is WAY more refuge from angling than most any rivers in the state, miles of closed water or inaccessable by boat water, huge log jams, big rapids, many areas that I know we cant reach fish there, the refuge from angling via a no boat policy is not an issue here on the coast around Forks. It would however be nice as a regulation to promote a different quality experiance, but we all know how WDFW feels about providing a quality fishery through there regulation.

    A no boat fishery on the PS rivers is a great idea, I loved the Green when it had the regulation between Witney and Soos crk..Fact it pretty much went down hill at the time of removal of said reg....just my observation...
     
  4. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    Chris -
    I would think that a "Puget Sound" wide plan would be much like that seen with the Puget Sound Chinook plan. Within that plan for each basin/stock individual allowable impacts were developed . Those allowable impacts vary quite a bit reflecting the individual stock productivity (unfortunately that also includes stocks where hatchery spawners are included). With such an approach one might see something like a 15% allowable impact on the Skagit and say only 2% on soemthing like the Cedar. Given some of the lack of data on some basins I would also expect that there would be a number of basin under some sort of default allowable impact - likely that 4%.

    Obvious developing those individual basin impacts requires a fair amount of basin specific data and modeling efforts for each those basin. I could go into more details of what into that Chinook model but it gets pretty technical.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  5. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    Curt,

    Thanks for clearing that up, put in those terms it makes more sense. So then what needs to be done is to get to work on data for individual basins while they come up with a plan.

    I would love to see a no fishing from floating devices on the forks of the nookie, as well as re-instating the no bait barbless above welcome bridge. When that reg was in place the dolly fishing was great!
     
  6. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    so it is a great reg.... as long as it doesn't impact you.
     
  7. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    it's not a recovery tool, but it could be a way to stop other river systems from being shut down. we are currently pounding fish on the coast, and not all the rivers are consistently meeting escapement. can we be serious about conservation while not being willing to lessen our impact on stocks below escapement. yes, the tribal fisheries harvest more fish but is it wise to behave badly because others do?

    as for the deschutes, you also have a huge community devoted and fighting to restore wild runs on that river. groups like the native fish society have worked to place weirs over many (if not most) of the smaller tributaries in an attempt to decrease the impacts of stray hatchery fish. the initial numbers show that this is a good strategy. i also wonder if the way the deschutes is managed creates more community involvement with such incredible public access and equitable fishing regs. it has been managed as a treasure for a long time and i think that shows in the amount of people who financially support real wild fish work on the river.
     
  8. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Topwater,

    Agreed on all counts.

    If you ever find yourself in B'ham let me know. I'll buy or at least serve you my homebrew. Good luck.

    1 out to go,
    cds
     
  9. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    I just so happen to fish were the regulation on the rivers allows for a good portion of un boatable refuge already, as said before in this thread a basin by basin regulation is better, a blanket regulation is ridiculous not all rivers are the Deschutes or Skagit in character. Did you actually read what I said or are you trying to be a jack ass,,,,, that solves nothing and exactly why sportsmen will never have any political power too many Jack asses.
     
  10. gt

    gt Active Member

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    brazda, let me amend your comment from my perspective.

    the sport angling community lacks political power for two basic reasons: every sport angler knows in their heart of heart what THE solution looks like and is unwilling to join hands with other sport anglers to find any compromise that can be made to fly; the sport angling community lacks any local/nationally recognized organization which is willing to bring folks together and move an agenda forward.

    given these two circumstances, the fish are doomed.
     
  11. attack

    attack Member

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    Every river is different and must be treated that way...I can tell you from lots of time on the hoh that a boat ban would do leaps and bounds for the health of that fishery especially in low water years where the fish have no where to hide and get pounded on over and over... the problem we face with all these conservation issues is everyone wants to point the figure at someone other than themselves and jusitfy their own views without ever even considering the others...
     
  12. Leopardbow

    Leopardbow Member

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    disagree.
     
  13. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    Thanks GT and thanks for pointing to the obviouse (to us) on a lot of your other comments too, sometimes I feel as an angler we are regulating ourselves out of fishing and opening the door to more aggrressive kill fisheries to move in (forgone opertunity), we all know whom we speak of, and fortunate for us it has been a great run this year with far less effort by the commercial angling community (reduced market?). I hope its enough to show that the fish are there on the coast they just need to get to the spawning grounds allive. We will see when the escapement numbers come out.
    Did not intend to hyjack thread.
     
  14. gt

    gt Active Member

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    i agree with you jeff. in this state with WDFW focused on MSY, we should expect the sport angling community to take the brunt of shorter more restrictive seasons in order to preserve fish for the commercial sectors. this is not limited to this state by any stretch but there is no end in sight particularly when the sport angling community lacks any disicpline, legal backing or agressive lobby.
     
  15. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    I've thought about this issue myself in the past and came to the conclusion that SPORTfishermen are unable/unwilling to organize into a powerful lobbying force because the activity that unites us is just...sport. Other groups with overlapping fisheries interests are in it for work and money. It's not play time for them, and thus they have greater incentive to pursue their interests in an organized and aggressive fashion. That's just my theory based on intuition about human nature.