confused

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Leroy Laviolet, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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  2. shotgunner

    shotgunner Anywhere ~ Anytime

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    Sorry SS, not yet :)

    Context confused here, question was posted in the Speyclave forum?

    Bruce, could you please comment on what year and originally were these primarily spey or overhead cast? Appreciate it.

    I don't think we dreamed up the title 'Skandi' but that it was a no brainer for Euro style casting and gear. Goran Andersson must have started in the early 50's?

    Coincidentally I was just reading an old two part article by Dan Blanton when this thread kicked off.. it's all interesting [to me anyway]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I agree Brian, this horse is far from dead. Besides, I like these treads they are far more interesting than the "which rod should I buy" or the "look at my new reel" threads. What a great opportunity to learn a little history and evolution of our beloved sport, after all if it wasn't for the "Tradition" it would just be fishing.

    Thanks for the clip from Dan Blanton, only wish I coud read the whole thing.
     
  4. shotgunner

    shotgunner Anywhere ~ Anytime

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    Thanks James, I agree. If I was skilled enough betting I could scan the script and assemble a file then email. I'll try and figure something out..

    Leroy, not faulting you for posing the question here in the Spey Clave, just expected 'Spey' orientated replies.. No worries though, all good stuff :)
     
  5. Leroy Laviolet

    Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    do'n it 4 the chinookie
    Seems to me, the term " Shooting head" was used 30 years ago for us single hand steelheaders , much differently than the answer now is to what we are now doing with two handed rods. The definition of any head with a loop on the end seems awfully broad ... Doesn't answer the confusion for me, but I'm used to being confused , that's why i posed the question -
    I'm not sure why you didn't expect to see it here in the speyclave forum , that's where the term is common also( I probably am missing your point) ... Great read by Dan Blanton Gunner, thanx for posting-
     
  6. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Leroy, I think your question is very valid and quite pertinent to the Spey Forum. Like I said before...if you buy Brand X spey rod specifically designed for Shooting Heads, and not heed the designers idea of what a shooting head should be, you could be in for a world of disappointment. If you just went by the broad definition you may surmise "any line" looped to the running line should be okay...as if loops define a line anyway. Loops are just a way of connecting; either integrated or looped it's still a line system.

    When it comes to defining a shooting head, I'll go out on a limb to say this:

    A shooting head is any taper or belly designed to deliver the running line at ratio of three times or more running line to head length.

    Just because a Grand Spey is looped to a running line doesn't make it a shooting head, by any means...it just makes it convenient to change lines.

    Am I out of line or does this definition capture the principle intent of it's many originators.
     
  7. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Active Member

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    Actually a grand spey `head` looped to running line would be a shooting head.
    As for Jimmy Greens contribution of shooting heads for double hand use I would say it was in the mid to late 70`s at least thats what I found in one of my books ;-D
     
  8. Leroy Laviolet

    Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    I got bad news for ya James, in my world, that makes a lot of sense, so if you are on the same page with ole Leroy, you got issues man ... :)
    Thanks for the ideas, realy does clarify somewhat ,to me anyways -
    Now if we could just get some more completely differing opinions ....:rofl:
     
  9. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Great! Now I'm confused...thanks, I think?
     
  10. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    So shooting heads where created to be "all about the loop to loop" to running line? Why didn't they just call them changable heads, transient heads or changelings? Something more appropriate to the system....shooting implies something completely different then just a connection. Know if you say "No, shooting heads are designed to go the distance" I'd say: "HOW?" is it the fact it has loops? So if I get an intergrated line cut the running line loose and then reconnect with loops....BAM! Shooting Head...and forty extra feet of casting distance.

    Aside from what has been said, has anyone done a search about shooting heads on this forum or speypages? And if so what lines and lenghts are most talked about?
     
  11. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    So if I take a standard 90' WF single hand fly line, and loop it to some mono instead of backing, doesn't this logic mean that this would then be a shooting head? Not trying to stir the pot... just enjoy playing devils advocate I guess lol
     
  12. ralfish

    ralfish Active Member

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    aahemm, Kelson talks of shooting line circa 1890.
     
  13. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Active Member

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    If you cut the `head` out of the standard wf single hand line and attach that to mono it would be a shooting head. So you would have a head of roughly 30-40ft and then running line. The head has the weight that pulls the running line.
    Jock Scott speaks of spey shooting heads in Fine and Far Off early 1900`s as well
     
  14. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I agree...if that matters...but then again it fits my idea of what should define a shooting head because that senario would yield better distance performance by eliminatine a running line split between purposes: one of mending and shooting, in favor of a "Shooting line" with the sole purpose of flying far.
     
  15. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    Those two Dan Blanton articles that Shotgun mentions completely changed my fly fishing life as I knew it at the time. James I'm pretty sure I have those mags if Shotgunner doesn't get you a scan.