Dec Hogan signature series Fly Logic Spey

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by TomB, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    Oh please be kind to my precious. Everyone wants my precious. They want to take my precious. Pleeeease don’t break my precious.
     
  2. harleytio

    harleytio Member

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    Now this comment could only come from a person of true skill and knowledge of the outdoors.

    harleytio
     
  3. Will Atlas

    Will Atlas Guest


    I know him and I think its a little bit of both....
     
  4. TomB

    TomB Active Member

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    im sorry guys i didnt reallize that by asking your opinion on a 9wt rod i was volunteering information about the size of my dick or quality of my technique. How inappropriate of me. Next time i will be sure not to mention the size of the rod i am considering buying. Sheesh.
    -T
     
  5. Rob Zelk

    Rob Zelk I swing, therefore i am.

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  6. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Just to clear things up a little, it's been a couple of years, not ten. His relationship with Ed was "butch and sundance" Not "yoda and luke". If he was a "product" of fishing with Ed wouldn't fish the same lines and flies as Ed and have a similar casting stroke? If by 55 feet you mean longbelly, then yes, he used longbelly lines, but I don't know many who would consider 55 longbelly. Ed used the 1308 dec rod extensively and probably still does when no one is looking. His input is very much responsible for the "thumb notch" at the top of the grip. He also uses Burkheimers, CND, and I'd be surprised if a Meiser or two hasn't made it into his quiver.

    The loomis rods are fun and great fishing tools no doubt about it, but damn pricey!
     
  7. DRBfish

    DRBfish New Member

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    I wouldn't say Ed is the grandfather of skagit. I think Mike Kenney and some of the older guys have been doing it a long time.
     
  8. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Tom. I didn't mean to get personal. You mentioned your interest in a particular weight Spey rod, but you didn't say what your intended use is. 14' 9wts have become pretty much defined as the standard steelhead Spey rod. I have two 10 wts and the ubiquitous Sage 9140, a 9 wt. Sure, they do the job as steelhead tackle, but to make a comparison, they are kinda' like using a 7 or 8 wt graphite fly rod to catch 6" trout. So if you're intending to fish chinook and chum salmon, then a 9 wt will be a good fit. But after a couple steelhead that weigh less than 15 pounds, a 9 wt Spey feels very over-gunned. Hence my off color comment and why I provided some context with respect to single hand fly rod weights that have demonstrated their utility as excellent steelhead tools.

    And since we're off topic about Dec's personal life, it's been more than two years and less than 10, but who's counting? And I don't know how many Spey rods Ed has, but now that he's assisting with Spey rod design for Loomis, he's been seen sporting Loomis.
     
  9. TomB

    TomB Active Member

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    salmo g- i didnt actually take your comment personally...i knew what you were saying so no need for apologies. My response was mostly directed at the others who seemed to linger on a particular part of your post. I thought their side conversation was distracting and getting old. I appreciate all the solid advice you have offered. I was going to get the 14' 9 wt without consideration of another rod weight, but I am now reconsidering thanks to your help.

    I think it is interesting that you arbitrarily selected 15 pds as a cutoff in your above post for 8 vs 9 wts. A friend of mine who is way more experienced than me also used 15pds to distinguish the size of fish properly suited for a 9 vs 8 (that isnt to say you cant land a big fish on an 8).

    -T
     
  10. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Well-Known Member

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    Tom,

    The 15# isn't terribly arbitrary. Fish that big and larger no longer feel like tiddlers on a 9 or 10 wt Spey. But since we catch so few that are in that weight classification, and since a lighter Spey rod is also perfectly capable of playing and landing the largest steelhead we'll ever hook, there are good reasons to consider an 8 wt rod.

    Consider the questions:
    Will an 8 wt cover the water you intend to fish?
    Will it cast the types of lines and flies you intend to fish?
    Will it handle both the average and the largest fish you can expect to catch?
    Will it be a comfortable rod to cast and fish from can't see in the morning to can't see at night?
    If the answer to all is yes, what makes another rod a better choice?

    Sincerely,

    Salmo g.
     
  11. Will Atlas

    Will Atlas Guest

    tom....I love you...
     
  12. Rob Zelk

    Rob Zelk I swing, therefore i am.

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    I think i'm sort of snaking this post, sorry TomB

    DRBfish - Mike Kinney, not Kenney. I don't know all the ins and outs of skagit casting. But i do know a few things.

    Ed is the one Dana Sturn calls upon to define skagit casting, go to speypages.com and look up skagit casting. Read all about it.

    Airflo is using Ed's skagit formula to produce their skagit heads.

    Ed is the one that goes to the PNW spey claves and who demonstrates skagit style.

    I personally think he is worthy of the "grandfather" coin. He took what he and many of his close friends had done and when that much further, making it that much different; this eventually turned into what some say deserves to be labeled as a new "style", requiring a very indepth look into the important little differences that make it so (see again, Ed Wards definition of skagit style on speypages). As far as i know Ed is the only one who has described skagit style with that kind of depth and understanding. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Him and Marlow B among others were part of a team that was composed to design the first skagit rods ever made, but why is he the only one really mentioned when you try to find info from loomis on the SKAGIT rods?

    From what I've read, Ed, Scott Odonnell, Mike McKune and Dec Hogan used to fish together around the Puget Sound. They all fished similar ways, maybe 55 foot lines and traditional type flies, which is not skagit style. THEN they went their separate ways. While most of Mr. Hogan's new book focuses on more traditional type fishing he only spends a little section of it covering skagit style, and guess who it features? Ed.

    Maybe one rainy day Ed decided to crop the 55 foot lines down to almost half that and use the heaviest sink tips with substantial weight on his flies to suit his thirst for more steelhead and techniques that the different, newer type lines called for. Or maybe he had more influences that inspired him to do so. I'm not sure why Scott O went to Oregon, I don't know why Dec Hogan went to Utah, but if i were to call anyone the grandfather of skagit it would be Ed.

    Sure Mike Kinney has been around the PNW, and maybe he has used shorter belly(say 55ft) lines for longer, but 55ft lines aren't skagit lines. I don't know when, or if he fishes skagit lines every time he goes out like Ed. Mike does have a few years on Ed. Though if we're talking skagit casting, it is a VERY recent development in the spey world, which would allow for the deliberation of who had done it the most since its creation. Though i know Mike is a true PNW spey guru, and perhaps skagit guru (i know Kinney is involved in the making of the new CTS skagit affinity blanks which Meiser uses); i would call Ed the grandfather of skagit gurus, the one who took it, defined it, brought it into its own and really made it clear for the world to understand.

    Tite lines,

    Rob Z.
     
  13. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    When you get all those guys together on water, none of them will lay claim to being the originator of the Skagit cast. Instead, they like to talk about and teach the cast, talk about flies, talk about fishing, etc. But if you ask them where it may have started, they invariably mention having seen Goran Anderson cast. Using the underhand is a major part of the success in the final throw out on to the water.
     
  14. Rob Zelk

    Rob Zelk I swing, therefore i am.

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    I occasionally see some of them on the river, they really seem like some of the most humble guys I've ever met. Bumpus, Kinney, and Ward etc. Yeah i think Simon G is the Grandfather of Skagit ;) :) ;) J/k Ok, the term grandfather is definately not right for any one person. I think I did a good job of digging this post and myself into a hole. I'm trying to search for some clarity in the process of skagit casting's evolution. Please, more info if you have it... Maybe we can get to the bottom of the skagit mystery.
     
  15. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    iagree EXACTLY. If I had a 'buck' for every time I've made a similar comment I'd be very (financially) comfortable.:beathead: This clap-trap abut getting 15' 10/11's so you can handle that 'fish of a life time' is pure twaddle. As an example, here on the Rogue, as soon as the the water flows drop below 1700-1800 csf it's darned unusual to see many (local) folks using even a 8wt spey. By 1200 it's 6 and 7's. One of the better 'one handers' (up til yesterday when they kicked up the water flows by almost 25%!!:eek: ) infrequently goes to even a 5wt rod. (A nice summer run on a 4wt IS a hoot!!)