Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by TomB, Nov 3, 2006.
Rob, sending you a PM.
You guys left a few names out; Harry Lemire, Bob Strobel, Jimmy Green, Kim Weymouth, Eric (forgot his last name), Brad "I don't need no stinking taper" Adrian (likely one of the first to use a line configuration like the new Rio Skagit lines), Bob Huddleston, Brian Simonseth, just to name a few who were playing around with lines at the same time as Ed, Marlow, Mike and the rest. The so called Skagit line system and cast (because you can't have one without the other) was made up by all of the folks mentioned in this thread and more.
WOW! All you guys sure sound like local insiders! Or maybe you just read Dec Hogan's new book cover to cover
Anyway, I have lived around Bellingham my entire 25 year life and fished with some serious anglers but no name comes up more than Dec Hogan. Maybe because of his books. I don't know. The guy is a legend or so it seems to me.
Also, who the HELL is this Dec Hogan anyway.......I mean move to Utah or Arizona or whatever.......That kinda threw me for a loop when I found out. There are all kinds of great reasons I can think of to move to other parts of the world and BELIEVE me I have covered them all in my head but one thing always keeps me here and keeps me happy: Steelhead.
So my question, what kind of guy becomes a steelhead legend, write numerous books, is understood to be one of the best, than moves to the desert.........WTF IS THAT?!?
Hey Dec!!!! We need some answers because I am confused
I wish he still lived here because I would like to have a cage match ultimate fight between Dennis Dickson and Dec Hogan......Now that would be a fight!!!! DD would have the short but fast 5wt and Dec a monster Spey rod......who knows which way it would go?!?! (I have too much free time today.....which is unusual....)
I believe his motives were of the feminine type. Not that I know the guy...but its what I heard through the grapevine. Anyway, I think he's crazy too...salt lake? The mormons outnumber the fish 10 to 1.
He fell in love.
Loomis and Airflo... Think about it awhile and you will be able to figure out the connection... Starts with a "R" ends with an "F". Rhymes with "Maybeff"
As to demonstrators, O'donnel and McKune probably do more "skagit" demos than Ed. They are very professional in their presentations and their casting stroke is more accessible to most folks. Why doesn't Kinney do more? Because Mike is Mike... He will never sugarcoat a moose turd and call it a chocolate truffle. This sometimes leads to him not getting along with some of the powers that be. Doesn't change the fact that he knows more about skagit casting, and casting in general than most. I enjoy watching Mike teach very much.
Dude, you make some bold statements, but the content of them indicates that while you are pretty well educated and passionate about this stuff, your lack of indepth knowledge makes you sound a little silly to those of us who have been swinging two handed rods for over a decade. Not knowing jack about Mike Kinney means your education is just begining. I bought a 42 foot line designed by Mike Kinney in 1997. He's been doing it awhile... Slow down, take it in. It's a journey and we all have a long way to go.
Here's what I dont get....why does anyone care who is considered the grand daddy of skagit spey. this is like arguing apples against oranges. The fact is that all the guys aforementioned are great fishermen/casters and were all significant contributors to what we now know as Skagit Spey casting (which I'm sure is still evolving). Dont know if people just want to seem like they know more than everyone else. I'm not trying to knock anybody, but the fact is we all like skagit casting and we all respect the guys who contributed to its evolution.
I think Kush on Speypages put it best when he labeled Ed's style "Edgit" casting. His casting is smooth as butter but can't say I've ever seen anyone else who uses his continuous casting stroke. I probably don't undersand it (continuous load as employed by the Edgit style), but to my eyes, everyone else associated with PNW styles distinctly pauses to form the D loop. Fish with Mike Kinney if you have the opportunity. He's been around awhile and can put alot of this stuff into a wider context. You'll learn a thing or two about steelheading as well. I always do.
That pretty much sums it up, very cool Phil. I talked with Mike today about this subject. He pretty much said it kind of came about when him, Harry Lemire and Bob Strobel were trying to just kick out some short heads on to the water when there wasn't much room, which is typical during the winter and heavier flows. Then of course there was a need to get down with bigger flies, etc, merely finding a way to fish with your back against the brush and work the water close to the bank. Mike said Dec even mentioned him, Harry Lemire and Bob Strobel in his book as probably starting the now world famous cast (Maybe not in those words, I haven't read Dec's book yet). From there it led to 10 to 20 people, most of which have been mentioned now who worked the method every since, adding their skills. Edgit casting, Kinney kasting and on it goes. I think the point is, it was the collaboration of a lot of people and they are all right and all are the grandfather, if that is important to know. Actually, I think Kerry is my Grandfather or father, but my mom doesn't want to talk about it. Just kiddin' Kerry. Every person has different way of teaching it. Either way, they all work.
One more quick note for certain individuals who lack understanding. Fly fishing is a very small world. The world of the two handed rod is even smaller. Those that show a lack of respect will certainly live out their hopeless lives on a barren plateau with no water, devoid of knowledge and very good friends.
Oh no you don't! You are not going to pin any kind of maternity suit on my ass. When they made you I was plying the waters of the Rogue River trying to figure out how cast my yellow Eagle Claw fiber glass rod with a nice new Mitchell 300 spinning reel and one of those clear plastic torpedo floats tied on the end with a bug tied underneath it.
To take things one step further Matt, Kinney was already deep into the spey thing when Dec Hogan and Scott O'Donnell got out of the Navy and decided to live the steelhead bum life up on the Skagit. This eventually evolved into the evolution of two great guides in Scott and Dec. If I remember right, Ed Ward got into the game with Dec Hogan and became Dec's "associate" guide. I did say, if I remember right. It's been awile, so things kind of run together in my head. Kinney was in the "mix-er" so to say with a list of old Skagit regulars that goes back to Lemire, Gallagher, Stroebel, Butorac, Green, Sorvel, Wintle, Farrar, Aid, our own Les Johnson and 20 or 30 other guys. Kinney was chopping up heads and using the bottom hand 20 years ago. If you watch the old seam ripper, everything about his style screams of mastery. Mastery of the Skagit style he helped invent and perfect. Now that I know. Kinney is the Jimi Hendrix of Skagit casting, only instead of ripping "Dolly Dagger" on a Strat, he's ripping a seam 75 feet away with the Meiser MKS rods he designed. Let's not forget Zelk that Kinney was trying to get people to build a rod with a heavier tip for "heads" and spey fishing long before anybody was offering Skagit rods. Bob Meiser was the first guy to acutally recognize Mike's genious and the MKS was born. Due to his low-key nature we probably will not really appreciate all he has taught us until he is gone. Lastly, many many years ago, Kinney had compacted the spey stroke and taken away any wasted economy even with longer bellies. The use of the bottom hand was something he was teaching long, long ago. And Zelk, go learn a little bit about Bob Stroebel. If Kinney is Jimi Hendrix, then Stroebel is Robert Johnson. Coach
Yeah too bad smart ass yuppies now outnumber real spey bums 5 to 1. You can always tell who they are because they have the nicest gear, cast better than you (no doubt because of all the classes and guided fishing trips) and most importantly they never want to have a river side conversation. Plus it is all body language. They run in packs of 3 usually and often all have the same gear. Fuckin weirdos. I still cringe when I see a spey caster in gore-tex.
Oh and about Dec Hogan moving to Salt Lake City: Not many fly fishers there and the ones that are usually hall balls 3 or so hours to the Green River.......I caught a 5# brown in a small stream 20 minutes from the insane urbanity of the SLC. There actually is amazing fishing there that is still fairly untapped.....maybe mormons aren't allowed to fish?
However, Dec is still crazy.......or maybe his lady is smokin' hot......oh well......I thought the saying was "The best kind of head is steelhead." Perhaps Dec knows something we don't?
Oh come on dad, please take me fishing again. Please, please, please!
kerry is allowed to ignore the following comment because he actually lives it. he actually knows what he is talking about.
oooooooh ooooooooooh ooooooooooooooooh!! can i play the name-dropping game as well????!??!?!?!?!? pretty please................................?????????????
jbuehler you are an idiot. just because someone knows how to cast doesnt make them a yuppie. it doesnt mean that they spent wads of money on instuction and guides. maybe theyve just put many years into doing it and eventually became good and usually they will be seen wearing gore-tex because anybody that knows anything and spends any large amount of time on the water knows that gore-tex is the most desirable material to fish in. like i said, you are an idiot.