Delta 6/7 turnover issues

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by James Waggoner, May 6, 2011.

  1. TomB

    TomB Active Member

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    Hey James,

    I will be trying out different fly weights and tips with my 6/7 delta this year, so I can't speak directly to it yet. Up until this summer i had been using a 6/7 midspey on my 7125 burkie and i found that i could very comfortably cast flies up to medium size either on a long well tapered leader, or with tips up to ~75-100 grains (say a chopped off 8-10 ft piece of T-8) for example. Casting truly larger flies with large dumbbell eyes, or using pieces of T-14 worked considerably less well. A great non-skagit setup for casting larger junk in your line weight range is a cut back windcutter....then again, depending on how much we cut back, what we end up with resembles a skagit. For me, based on ease of casting, I have decided to go with the lighter weight mid and longer bellies for small-medium flies and or light tips...for large flies or heavy tips, either moving up to a higher line weight (my 9/10 GPS) turns over turkeys when properly cast, or moving to a shorter denser line on a light rod, turns the big stuff over more easily.

    -T
     
  2. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    It's funny hammer size has been raised...mass delivers mass? I'll put my 12 oz titanium Stilletto up against anybody's 23 oz Vaughn in an endurance contest...in reality the right tool will always be an air tool.

    I admit, I still own one 480 compact skagit, but I loaned it to a friend so I wouldn't be tempted.
     
  3. shawn k

    shawn k Active Member

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    Try a nextcast winter authority. I played with one on my anderson and really likee.
     
  4. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Yeah, the winter authority, should have done my research better and got that one. I've heard many good things about that line.
     
  5. k2flyfisher

    k2flyfisher You're only so smart as what you choose to share.

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    James- also a fan of the winter authority for what it sounds like youre trying to do. and for all intents and purposes, the winter authority is quite similar to a fall favorite 45 cut back and turned into a "tip system". but to do this, the diameter of the ff45 was beefed up to over .101'' in the belly to create a strong enough delivery to propel larger flies.

    the comparable sro vector, on the other hand, i didnt find to peform as well in throwing heavier tips and flies, due to a difference in taper. (and thats perfectly acceptable given its purpose) we cant expect lines to do what theyre not designed to do.

    http://speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=41985&highlight=ff45+vector&page=2

    my basic rule for what lines i use is completely based on what fly im wanting to throw. theres definitely merit in pan saying that balance is a part of "sobriety", and remembering that the lines you throw wont make you an overall better caster, but that learning how to use your setup to the best of its abilities by dialing it in and playing to its strongpoints is also part of the learning curve.

    if a delta is what you want to throw on that 7136, the 6/7 (at least to me) is a bit on the light side for throwing heavier tips and will essentially demand more (load from the rod/effort from you), to reach that "terminal velocity" that is necessary to propel the larger fly/tip, where the heavier 7/8 will naturally be able to give, just due to its enhanced diet of grain. =)

    also, dont be afraid to cut the line back a bit from the tip to a diameter of at least .054''. it might make the larger junk easy to cast. that delta is definitely a powerful line if given the right "trimmings".

    beautiful spring steelhead btw!
     
  6. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I'm not really sure a 7/8 Delta with 85 grain tips would get me any closer to what I've achieved with the 6/7 and 125 grains tips. I'd expect the wimpy 85 grain tip to perform as well as the 77 grain tips of the 6/7 delta. By adding the heavier tip to the 6/7 I've essentially increased the head weight to that of a 7/8 but doing so where it's needed for a larger fly. I've also increased the length by a couple of feet. So the loading is the same as a 7/8 in this configuration, casts and loads nicely. Smooth accelleration and Line speed into the back cast is key to keeping the head stable at the hinge point. Snake roll has been tricky, but doubles and singles go off without a hitch. I suspect the snake rolls will come along as I put some more time into this new line and configuration. I will consider a trim off the front of the belly if needed. Thanks, Brian your advice is welcomed and valued.

    James.
     
  7. ralfish

    ralfish Active Member

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    Some great advice here.

    One other ''trick'' if you don't want to cut it back to the .054'' point ( this is a key point) is to do more of a ''half out and go'' type cast. Generally it means you have to be a bit more bang on with your timing ...

    Deltas have been my go to winter line since I went down to shorter rods a few years ago. Tips to 120 grains T 14 and 2/0 irons although my go to tips usually are T8 from 80 to 125 ish grains and irons up to 2/0.

    Currently playing around with AFS heads cut at the same .054''. Tips of T14-140 grains and 2/0 irons ok (easier than the Delta) with my usual T8 tips rocking it. The shorter head of the AFS gets through wind a bit easier than the delta but of course nothing (so far) matches the durability of those airflow lines....
     
  8. sandspanker

    sandspanker Member

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    I don't want change topic or something but what are the advantages to the delta?? I'm new to spey and everyone tells me skagit this for that and what not but it sounds like you guys are uplining the delta and still being able to toss some junk?? Is this true? What about the airfol steelhead tactical?? I've read that they can toss some junk not t17 but some junk needless to say. I am lovin this whole spey thing!!!! I have a lifetime to learn. :) great job on those fish James...
     
  9. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Sand, the Delta is a much longer, slender head than the skagits. The advantages are that you don't have to strip in line all day and they aren't as vulgar to cast. The disadvantage is that you have to know how to use a two handed rod (proper anchor placement, D loop formation, and forward casting fundamentals).
     
  10. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Josh, stick with the skagit...learn the fundamentals, though some will say bad habits...get some steelhead under your belt. When you get board start experimenting. At this point it's all about keeping it simple and sticking fish. Since you started with the skagit stick with it, if you started with the delta, I'd say stick with it. As far as throwing junk...Throwing junk in my book is 3" long MOAL. The other day, I saw a dashboard with carnival prizes with these funky angular hooks...now that's junk! And that junk was riding a heavy skagit for sure.
     
  11. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    You talking about my Dashboard fly collection? :) Was fun casting your delta the other day.
     
  12. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    The above is some very good advice.
     
  13. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    You know it. Yeah, since the catching wasn't happening, we should have strung up your TnT with the Delta for fun. Lets get out again sometime.
     
  14. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    where did you chop your delta? (at the rear taper) I want to get that damn running line off as well...
     
  15. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    2' reel side of the taper. Welded a loop...it was that easy.