Demystifying Skagit and Scandi Heads

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Steelie Mike, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Vancouver, Wa.
    From a rookie, or about to be rookie, I have to say that reading all the impassioned arguments for various positions is actually VERY informative.

    I have tried to ask at each of the fly shops I shop at in the Portland area and it seems like each one speaks a different dialect of the same basic language. I have found it very intimidating because I just can't afford to make a $1000 mistake so I just say ok and leave the store trying to decipher what was informative and what was salesmanship. I consider myself pretty transparent so a wounded ego isn't really a worry but a wounded wallet is.

    I must say, however, after reading this entire thread it is no longer a mystery to me why gear fishermen laugh at us.:D
     
  2. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    108
    Location:
    Wenatchee, Washington
    That's why it pays to work w/ someone like Poppy who will send you lines to try to you can dial in your rod and find a line system that you like. Personally, my goal is to ultimately be able to cast long bellies. That's the penultimate in my mind.
     
  3. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    Roy, WA
    hey, props to FT for making his argument in a civil manner.

    For throwing big flies in the waters I fish at the flows I fish them, Skagit is the assassin's tool...because the trees are never far behind--ass in the bushes, as I like to say--
    but if I were fishing bigger water, long pools, open bars behind, I'd be fishing the big uglies off a longbelly with a thunderstick. For smaller flies on smaller to mid-rivers, I like lightscandi because it's easy on the shoulder and fun, making circles in the air and whatnot.

    Now that we're getting into the dryline months, I can't wait to line up the long rods with midbelly floaters and fish low water patterns. What a gas. I have a 14' 6/7/8 Meiser S rod being wrapped as we speak...and I'm twitching with anticipation.


    peace, you guys. It's fun, ennit?
     
  4. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,113
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
    There seems to be middle ground missing here..

    If I was to suggest a set up to learn on, and learn on the right way, it would be 12.6ft -14ft
    rod and a mid to long belly floater. In the end the individual is going to learn the right habits as far as mechanics. It may be a little tougher than learning on a skagit head, but it will benefit them in the long run with all styles.

    A skagit would instill bad habits and a long rod with a 100 ft head would cause the person to throw the rod on the beach and swear off spey casting.
     
  5. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    17,842
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    Location:
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Well stated. No measurements needed.

    Middle Ground? Compromise? Not in this group. Thanks Panhandle for expressing that there are many ways to get started. I have a starter setup much like you recommend. I've also got some skagit and long bellies that I try to wrap around myself from time to time. So far that long belly is the toughest SOB to manage but I can roll cast that sucker pretty far. Getting it airborne is another matter. I agree that bad habits can be easily picked up. I probably have some already with the skagits that sometimes make me think I know what I'm doing...a quick fly to the back of the head at cruising speed keeps me well grounded as to my lack of talent.
     
  6. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    3,980
    Likes Received:
    182
    Location:
    Hiding in your closet
    Wow... Seven pages of confirmation that spey rodders are way more into talking about their gear, drinking Scotch, and giving history lessons than actually putting it to use and catching fish. If it weren't for people like Brian simplifying it into easy to digest information that makes sense, spey casting would have never made it from completely gay to just somewhat bi-curious.
     
  7. chromeseeker

    chromeseeker Where's the Bucket?

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Your City ,State Vancouver, WA
    Leave it to spey rodders to take such a simple, well-written and insightful article and turn it into complete clusterf**k. Holy crap.

    Look, I know there are folks out there who may be able to cast chicken-sized intruders 100' with a DT line and that's fine but my questions is, why the hell would you WANT to? Sure, I'd love to fish behind a guy like that as well but not because I'd like to watch him put on a show. I'd love to fish behind him because I know at some point the poor bastard is going to drop dead from exhaustion and I'll have the rest of the runs to myself or else he's going to rip his rotator cuff and again, runs to myself.

    Innovation is great and that's what the scandi and skagit lines give us. I think graphite is great but I also really appreciate my 'boo rod for trout. I enjoy casting a long belly dry line in the summer but I know a scandi is less work. Midspey and medium belly lines work well in the winter with tips but coupled with big flies, they suck compared to skagits.

    I'm a believer in using the right tool for the job and skagits and scandis are just tools for casting , pure and simple and I think Brian's article highlights this pretty well.

    Many of you guys sound like a bunch of rod polishing, line splicing, grain-contemplating geeks for christ sake. Just grab a line, rod and reel that make you happy and go fishing and quit quibbling over totally useless shit and splitting the proverbial hair.

    Maybe that's why I've been dabbling in gear fishing for bass over the last couple of years. Bass anglers are big on practicality over prettiness and I respect that philosophy. They'd be laughing their asses off at this hair-pulling slap fight.

    CS
     
  8. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    7,367
    Likes Received:
    2,682
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    It is sort of like the old why do you ride a hardtail question; if I have to explain it to you, you will never understand.
     
  9. ChrisC

    ChrisC Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    .

    There are some who wouldn't mind fishing behind you.;)
     
  10. chromeseeker

    chromeseeker Where's the Bucket?

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Your City ,State Vancouver, WA
    Of course I wouldn't understand as I know nothing about motorcycles. That's what a hardtail is, I assume?

    CS
     
  11. chromeseeker

    chromeseeker Where's the Bucket?

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Your City ,State Vancouver, WA
    Interesting. Please explain.

    JB
     
  12. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    7,367
    Likes Received:
    2,682
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Like I said; you will never understand.
     
  13. chromeseeker

    chromeseeker Where's the Bucket?

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Your City ,State Vancouver, WA
    I will say I don't know shit about motorcycles but I do know I really like fishing my old-school bamboo fly rod with a reel that's nearly 100 years old with small dry flies. But I can also appreciate being able to cast a 4" long hunk of feathers on a Type 8 sinktip 80-90 feet with ease in the winter on my stiff T&T. Could I do the same with a DT line? Maybe, but I prefer not prolapsing my rectum.

    Is that what you mean or am I way off base? Read my original post next time.

    CS
     
  14. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    7,367
    Likes Received:
    2,682
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    It is sort of like the old why do you ride a hardtail question; if I have to explain it to you, you will never understand.
     
  15. fullerfly

    fullerfly Calvin Fuller

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Sandpoint, ID
    Brian,

    Great Article, thanks Mike for posting. I have tried to read through the seven pages of ...comments. But, unfortunatly, due to my A.D.D. I couldn't make it through all of them. Things that stick out are certain persons abilities to cast heavily weighted flies with sink tips on long belly lines 100 feet or so.

    Not that this can't be done, but I have to argue about the ability to effectively load the rod while fishing, not just casting. Standing in water, usually deeper than your ankles with very limited backcasting room.

    Now, I know I haven't read all seven pages. But, I think that Skagit lines are important to Load the rod effectivley and move the fly to where you want to fish with limited backcasting room.

    Brian's article is a great way to cut a lot of stuff that most people don't need to know or really care about.

    Cal