Do you give info on the lake?

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Wayne Kohan, May 22, 2011.

  1. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    Over the years it's not the times i caught fish that i learned , it was the times i got skunked that "MADE" me learn .
     
  2. Mike Ediger

    Mike Ediger Active Member

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    I was lucky enough to have a couple guys, at Chopaka kind of take me under their wing when I was just starting out, and set a good example for me of how to treat fellow fisherman. Being alone and brand new to the sport, I simply asked if they had any advice for a newbie, and they just about spent a half hour talking to me, gave me their own personally tied flies, told me how to fish them, where on the lake they liked, the whole deal. I tried to stop them and said I was just looking for a little advice, but I didn't want to take their flies, and they insisted. It meant a lot to me, and I had a great time because of them. Since then, I have always tried to repay their kindness. I will tell you just about anything I know on the water, which isn't usually much.
    They aren't my fish, it isn't a competition, and we are all just trying to have fun. If I can help you out along the way, I will certainly try. Plus, I need to the good karma.:thumb:

    I have no idea who is a jerk and who isn't based on one interaction, but I do feel bad for the guy in your story, that he can't simply enjoy the sport and those he shares it with.
     
  3. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Active Member

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    Good subject Wayne. As you mentioned, he was under no obligation to help out and I get Rod's point about the sport in it. On the other hand I would add that, realistically, the ability to figure it out on your own comes from a fair amount of time and experience on the water. Most guys out there are on the less experienced side and would greatly benefit from a little coaching along the way. It balances some fun and reward with all that frustration and, more importantly, keeps guys interested while they make their way along the curve. I know for sure a lot of folks don't stay at it because of things like difficulty in solving that ever changing puzzle on lakes. That and one or two negative encounters with the one ass in every crowd. Most of us have pretty limited time to put toward the sport so it's very conceivable that guys will just quit and do other things if outings just aren't fun.

    For what it's worth, in that situation his fly and the circle he was guarding were nothing exceptional. Neither had anything to do with his success but he and probably everyone around him thought both were the key to the universe at the time. Never been on that lake but I can say with reasonable confidence that those fish were simply active on midges and well spread out. All that really mattered was finding the right general depth and an area of relative concentration (he happened across one but there would be a number of them). It follows that a little observation would give an onlooker enough info to repeat the situation for himself, without the need for a conversation. Sounds like you pretty much did that as a second step. In his case, when a guy starts banging away at them with a still presentation (chironomid) I'll bet my last buck every time it's not his ice cream cone that matters. He simply has the depth and an area of concentration dialed in. Seriously you can hit that same depth and concentration with a piece of duct tape on a hook, even a moving presentation, and hit just as many. Sharing a fly is a nice gesture that I always recommend but, if you really want to help a guy, talk about depth, location and why those fish are there (what are they feeding on and how are they taking it). Then make sure he's using the right line for the task. The fly is a token afterthought but we treat it like the gospel.

    Couple of final thoughts. If he was seriously guarding his fly choice and a section of the lake, he didn't really know why he was onto those fish. That means he didn't have anything useful to offer you even if he wanted to.

    The real sadness here is how lonely and unfulfilling that way of life on the water would be. In reading your story I didn't feel sorry for you. Like Mike, I felt sorry for him. Hopefully he was just having a bad week and didn't feel like being social. If you ask me, the only thing better than hitting a bunch is helping another angler do it. I've had some very good outings this year but, to be honest, my favorite was sitting there watching Mumbles hunt down his first brown right in front of my face. Looking back, if I had told him to get F'd and figure it out on his own that would have been my loss.
     
  4. I don't mind sharing info on the water, but when everyone starts encroaching on your 2 cast radius space because you're ripping fish, thats absurd. If someone is polite and keeps their distance and takes the time to observe and courtesy to ask I am happy to provide the information. I met up with a couple guys at the launch last week and even showed them some throat sampled Chironomids, which they'd never heard of before or let alone had seen. It was amazing for them to compare my fly with the natural and then this perplexed look on their faces wondering how that resembles a woolley bugger or leech. I used to be one of those guys who didn't understand stillwater and used to call it 'boring'. Once you put some time in and understand the biology and the habitat, it can be as rewarding as dead drifting nymphs for Montana browns or swinging for steelhead.
     
  5. plugboots

    plugboots Member

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    Wow, one comment by the guy and he's a jerk. There's more to the story. Maybe he just wanted to be left alone, and didn't feel like talking. Maybe he felt the OP got too close. Whatever.
     
  6. Travis Bille

    Travis Bille Active Member

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    That's too bad. Friday night and Saturday morning were my first times at Lenice and I found almost everyone to be super nice and helpful. One gave gave me tips on chiro fishing and I didn't even ask! It was a fun bunch. And on a slightly more cheerful note, friday night was my first time night fishing and WOW! Those sucker hit hard!!
     
  7. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    I'm with rod on this one guys .

    I've always figured if i had to ask what fly to use or what technique then it wasen't me catching the fish . when people hire guides - who is catching the fish ? IMO its the guide not the fisherman .

    i started fly fishing in the 70's back then you had to read books and buy books for tying patterns . you had to be on the water to learn . for 13 years i traveled the western states for work and was able to fish rivers like the henry's fork and green river above and below flaming gorge - silver creek and a lot more . i never asked anyone for advice and sometimes paid the price ! on the henry's my father and i floated the canyon throwing stone flies and never landed a fish . that evening i fished by my self and landed one 21 inch rainbow and was very proud of that . it took me two days to figure things out and then i was catching some 20 big rainbows a day . on the green below flaming gorge i walked up to the river and started dead drifting it like a freestone river , it didn't take me long to figure out that i had to spot fish it like i would a flat spring creek and match the hatch almost exactly to be successful . but it was me that figure these things out , not some random guy i didn't even know telling me how to fish or what to use .

    I just started back into fly fishing heavy 2 years ago and the information over the internet is amazing . anyone can be a pro in no time at all , this wasent the case when i started fly fishing . i can pull up almost any fly from you tube and see exactly how to tie it in about 4 minutes , i can pull up most bodies of water and find 5 to 10 links of information with a touch of the fingers . and this isn't enough ? i have to still go out and bother someone else fishing alone because he is catching fish ? i can also pull up insect life cycles and watch the insect on video . man i wish it was this easy when i started .

    This need of immediate gratification of todays fisherman baffles me . success is earned , the feeling i get from figuring it out is what gives me gratification its what keeps me coming back and makes me the fisherman i am . what made me a much better fisherman was when i was twenty "i'm now 52" I was on the deschute's river and the river turned alive to a hatch , every trout in that river was rolling to flies on every foot of that river - i threw every fly i had in my box and never hooked a fish , i sat down and almost cried . but thats what "MADE" me the fisherman i am today . that day changed my life ! by most post on this subject i should of just asked someone what fly it was and took the easy way out and learned nothing .

    To the O.P. i'm glad you took the time to pump the stomach and find out for yourself what the fish were on . in hind sight which was better - doing that ? or if he would of told you what hatch it was , would you of felt the same success as you did figuring it out for yourself ? maybe he did you a favor in not telling you !!! you were able to post what "YOU" did to catch fish - and not what "HE" did that allowed you to catch fish - thats what i got out of the post was your success and the knowledge you had to get the info , thats what impressed me . and now we all want to call him an ass ? i don't think so ! all he said was "he didn't talk about that" he didn't call him stupid , he didn't say there flying all over the water idiot figure it out for yourself . he was nice , and to the point , and didn't look over because he was fishing an indicator and slaying the fish , he was tuned in and doing what a good fly fisherman dreams of - on a hatch - matched perfectly - catching fish almost every cast - depth was perfect . HE WAS NOT IN THE WRONG - IMHO If i saw him on the bank later i would of showed the respect he deserves and shook his hand telling him he did a great job today and it was fun to watch such a great fisherman .
     
  8. nz trout bum

    nz trout bum Member

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    I guess I agree with both Rod and with the majority who felt the guy was a jerk. We are talking about two different things - how you want to fish/learn and how you treat others.

    I would rather figure things out on my own just because I get so much satisfaction out of the discovery and the "ah ha" experience. That is the root of the sport at least for me. On the other hand sharing information with fellow fishermen when they ask, or in some cases even when they don't, gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I really enjoy making somebodys day better when they have been having a blank day while others around them are catching. A side benefit is that I have been given more than I ever offered in the way of new water, better access, fly patterns etc.

    My last comment is that I do not take it as a personal insult to me or our sport if someone chooses not to share their hard earned information. Bad form - but a choice each of us makes. These people just don't realize how much he or she is missing. W
     
  9. Mark Walker

    Mark Walker Active Member

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    As long as the person asked isn't rude in his answer, take it with a grain of salt. Some people just aren't friendly and prefer to be left alone. I can understand and respect that.
    There is no excuse for rudeness in my book, so take it under advisement.

    On the other hand, were you to ask me, I would be more than happy to share info, guide you in the right direction, give you a few flies and most likey chew your ear to the point of you wishing you'd kept your mouth shut.
    I'm a friendly guy.:)
     
  10. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    That guy was a jerk, as others have noted. Sharing "secrets" one-on-one has near zero impact on a fishery either the day the information is shared or long-term. It's merely a way to be cordial to others in our little fraternity (that sometimes behaves like a sorority) of flyfishers.

    So I share...but on the water only. In fact, I shared on Saturday bobbing around on a lake with two guys near me who weren't hooking up. I even told them about a few other lakes nearby that they should try this summer, which is something I'd never do on an Interwebz forum like this.
     
  11. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

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    "Don't ask, don't tell" not really.
    I will share info, and flies most every time, in fact I'm the one to start the conversation "How ya doing, I'm using a brown ? it's working really good."
    Now when it comes to my favorite streams, tight lips.
    As for calling this guy a jerk "those that live in glass houses"
     
  12. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

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    Asking what someone is using isn't always means of just tying on what he is fishing and not thinking about it. For me, being so new to the world of fly fishing and knowing very few patterns it becomes more of a way to learning about a new pattern than to blindly catch fish. I ask almost everyone what they are using, many times after the fisherman has called it a day. I enjoy learning about the different pattern and what they imitate. In fact, many times if I'm not having luck and ask someone that is having luck I will continue to fish my fly for a while and when i switch I often won't switch to the exact fly, but rather something of the same profile in a different color or the same color and size but different profile. Those things help me piece together information that I already have with new things like whether it is size, color, or profile (or more likely what combination of the 3) that fish are keying on to better understand trout and thusly the art of fly-fishing.
     
  13. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    This thread is comical.

    Thanks for the entertainment and breaking up a boring day at work.
     
  14. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Active Member

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    Kerry with all the good entertainment you've provided us over the years it's the least we could do :clown:
     
  15. skyrise

    skyrise Active Member

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    have had the same happen @ Merry one day. guy was hitting fish every 10-15 minutes. what are ya using? oh its a gray thing bla bla. well ok be a jerk.
    anyway, always try to help others. its for fun folks. were not out after someones gold mine.